Cindy: Oh my gosh, Wilco, it’s so good to have you here on the show. For people who have just tuned in to 7 Figure Furnace who haven’t heard anything about you, how about you let them know, who is Wilco? How do you pronounce your name even? I think it’s Wilco, yes?

Wilco: You did really good, actually. It’s Wilco

Cindy: Who are you and what is your thing?

Wilco: You did it better than most though.

Cindy: Oh, really?

Wilco: Well obviously I’m Dutch hence the name, right? I’ve been online full-time for over a decade now. I won’t make it boring, but I’ll start it off doing AdSense like most people do, then I’ll shift it over to affiliate market and give a lot of buying traffic to all kind of affiliate offers, and then shift it over to a sort of software focus basically. We release software. What I do … I just love marketing. I’m probably just like you Cindy. I’m a geek when it comes to marketing. I love driving traffic, I love testing traffic I love everything about it. That’s what I do, and that’s what really makes me stand up in the morning. I think that’s what really counts, right, that passion. I don’t want to go into all the boring stuff, but in a nutshell, I’m a marketing geek, I guess, from an adult [crosstalk 00:01:16]

Cindy: It’s funny because you say “All the boring stuff,” but you and I, and people … A lot of people that really get this internet marketing thing just get a total buzz out of anything to do with marketing. I don’t know about you, but we walk down the street and I see a billboard and sometimes I’ll just take a photo because I’m like “That’s a really good ad, I want to throw it in my swipe file.” [crosstalk 00:01:38] Today you mentioned you’re going to be talking about a [inaudible 00:01:46] method that I think a lot of people are really going to get a kick out of. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that?

Wilco: Yeah, sure thing. In short, it’s word of mouth, but in a way that I don’t think many people are doing it. It actually started about three years back. I was creating a new tool. I was just starting out creating tools, and I didn’t know how to drive traffic good because I didn’t want to spend beta ads on it because I was going to give it away for free. It was to build my email list, so it wasn’t really confident on driving beta ads, So I figured how am I going to get the word out? It’s a cool free blog, and it’s not like if you put something out there that people are just going to share it on Facebook, twitter. People think that happens, but-

Cindy: Unless it’s Donald Trump.

Wilco: Yeah, unless it’s Donald Trump or a really really cool cat. I was looking at Dropbox and … You use Dropbox, right? How did you get to know Dropbox?

Cindy: I don’t know. Someone sent me a link.

Wilco: Exactly, someone sent you a link, because what they did really cleverly is they said, “Everyone who signs up, we’ll give you a unique link and every single time one of your friends signs up to that link, we’ll give you extra storage.” What they did was they gave everyone their own personal unique tracking link, and they said, “Hey, we’ll give you something of value if you refer one of your friends.” Not just the sharing.

A lot of plugins or tools out there, they say “Share this and you’ll get that,” but we don’t want to share because a lot of people they just share it on a fake account or they delete it right after. Even if they do share it, they only share it once. What they did is they only give something of value if your friends actually signed up. If, for example, you wanted 10 people to sign up, you’re going to keep on sharing that. You’re going to keep on hustling until your friends actually sign up. That’s the end goal. That’s the same goal I had. People needed to sign up to my email list.

I hacked something together about three, three and a half years ago to try … I was hoping that some people would actually share it. I said “Hey, if you enter you email address here,” and then after I gave them a unique link, I said “Hey, if five of your friends sign up to your link, then you’ll get this tool for free.” That’s the deal. Like I said I was hoping some people would share, and what happened was people shared everywhere. Not just on twitter or Facebook, but they started sharing it on wordpress they started posting it on forums everywhere. Those people that were sharing it … On average they were sharing it two and a half times each because they wanted to get to those five people. From that point on it just took off. I was expecting that the traffic would suddenly slow down just like most things, but even a couple years after, every single day people were still sharing it because new people came into that sort of funnel where [crosstalk 00:04:24]

Cindy: Then they want a copy

Wilco: Exactly, so that got me thinking, what makes that work and what doesn’t? In a way it makes sense that it works, but at the same time there is a certain trick to it, or a certain formula that makes … That makes whether it’s going to work, whether, it’s going to fly, go viral, or not. That’s what I’ve been focusing on a lot over the last couple years, and I think I’ve got it pretty much down to a science. That whole way of getting people to drive traffic, getting people to promote your business, that’s what I want to dive a little bit deeper into.[crosstalk 00:05:04]

Cindy: Oh my gosh. I’m definitely keen to hear more about this. Hotmail was probably one of the first companies, even before Dropbox. It was very simple because not very many people were doing anything like that before, but they just had an email, and when someone sent an email it said, “Do you want a free email of your own?” It’s as simple as that. Of course people are seeing this and are just going to go and do it, of course.

Wilco: Exactly. That’s the whole idea behind it. In this case, like I said, when you’re Donald Trump or a really cool cat, that might be something that’s worth sharing, but in most cases a lot of people like you and me, we have something commercial. It’s either … Whatever it is, it’s commercial and that doesn’t go just viral. People don’t … Nobody’s going to promote your business just for the kick out of it. Some do, but not enough to actually go far. That’s where that link comes in, because that link gives you accountability. It makes sure that you actually have to get people to sign up. You basically have the same goal as the vendor, the person who’s owning that site. Where it all comes down to is you give something of value … You give something to that audience in return for them sharing, but not just anything. I’ve seen a lot of people trying to just give something [crosstalk 00:06:26] and it doesn’t work.

Cindy: No one really cares about it.

Wilco: Yeah. Over time I found there are three main criteria that really need to make sure you have, and the first one is that it’s really exclusive and that means that there’s no other way to get it. If I’m giving you a certain … You know that you can also get it just by typing it in in Google and you’ll get the same kind of information. No way you’re going to bother your friends about it, because you have an easier way. You always go for the easiest way. It’s the same like if I tried to sell you something but you know can get it for free, why would you pay for it? It has to be exclusive. The only way to get it is by making sure you share with your friends.

Secondly, it has to be something of value, obviously. If you don’t want to have it … My rule of thumb is if you wouldn’t pay for it, if you wouldn’t buy it, then you’re not going to share for it in order to get it as well. That’s the second thing.

The third thing is it has to be socially accepted, because if it’s … If you’re going to get a free sex toy, its not like you’re going to put that on Facebook. [crosstalk 00:07:24]

Cindy: You’re not going to post it [crosstalk 00:07:27] mother to go and see. Get Auntie Valerie to go and share that one, no.

Wilco: So ideally it’s socially accepted, or even better, if it’s sort of like an extension of your self image. For example, me, I’m an entrepreneur,

I love the software business, so if I would see something that would make me look good in front of my friends … It’s an extension of myself. Started vibing, entrepreneurial, being motivational [crosstalk 00:07:58]

Cindy: Quirky or geeky [crosstalk 00:08:00]

Wilco: That would make it easier for me to share it. If you have these three things in order; something that’s exclusive … The only way to get it is to share it. It has to be something of value, perceived value. People need to actually want to have it. That’s where marketing comes in. Thirdly it has to be socially accepted or even better extension of your self image. If you have these three things right, and you offer that in return of them actually getting x amount of people to sign up, that’s when you have … That’s where it all starts basically. That’s when people say “Well sure, I want to do it.”

Just one thing that I want to add, value really has to be about perceived value. I tired it one where I said “Hey, you’re going to get this scores, and it’s worth $197,” and it did not work. People don’t want money value. They want more like an intrinsic value. They want to see the benefit of whatever you have to give. If I would have said “You have this problem, this is the solution,” that would have worked much better. I figured people, they want to have a $200 value. For sharing something, that’s not going to work. It really has to be, problem, solution-

Cindy: A thing that they need.

Wilco: Exactly. Basically what you’re doing is you’re selling whatever you’re giving to them. Just like you would sell it to them for actual money.

Now in this case you’re going to ask them to get it … To share with their friends. That’s the first part of all this, and I think that’s the most important. If you have this … You give something the people really want to have and it’s exclusive and socially accepted, then you’re on the good track. The second step, and I might go a little bit deeper on this, and I hope I’m not going too fast.

Cindy: No this is great, keep it up.
Wilco: [crosstalk 00:09:39] I’m just super excited about this. Cindy: This is amazing, I love it.

Wilco: Basically in the end it all comes down to whether this goes viral or not, and just to make sure that we’re clear, when something goes viral it means that it will spread on itself. You could also get people to share it but it’s not going viral, which means that if you share this with one of your friends, initially you, as then owner, and then people share it and you get maybe 50 extra people. That’s amazing, awesome, but it’s not viral. You get more social shares, but if you share it with one of your friends and then the next round you’ll get 120, 150. It goes up and up and up and then that’s when you have something that goes viral.

Where it all comes down to, this is going to be a boring part, not for me but for some, What’s called the viral coefficient. In a nutshell it means that every single [inaudible 00:10:33] person who comes into that sort of funnel, who comes into your bait, will he or she on average result in more or less than one new person. If it’s less than one person, on average, then it’s not going to go viral. As soon as it hits more than one person, on average, that’s when you go viral.

When you break it down it’s all about testing. Like I said in the example before, people enter their email address on an opt-in bait, just a simple opt-in bait. Then they get a URL along with the opt-in bait, along with the URL and I say “Hey, in order to get this, share it with five of your friends and you’ll get this for free.” What happens is on your opt-in bait you’ll have x amount of people who actually sign up. I mean you’re not going to get a 100% opt-in rate, you know that. So x amount of people sign up, x amount of people, they don’t, They just drop off. That [inaudible 00:11:24] again, it’s a simple method, x amount of people will think yeah I want to have that I want to share it with my friends, and x amount of people say “Well yeah, it’s not for me,” and that’s it. What you want to do is you want to break down all these steps individually. You want to make sure that on the opt-in bait you want to test what is the best kind of opt- in bait you can get. What kind of message will get them to share?

I had it once where I tested two things. I said “Hey you can get this and you can get free lifetime access if you share with five of your friends.” The other one I said “Hey there are already 5,000 people waiting and waiting. Want to skip the waiting line and get instant free access?” The same thing, but three times as many people will actually share the second one because they’re like [crosstalk 00:12:11] No waiting. You just skip in front … That’s what they want to do, They don’t just want to have free instant access, they want to beat the rest. They want to [inaudible 00:12:19] It’s simple things like that really make a big difference, and where it all comes down to is instead of just you’re going to give this away for free, something, and you’re going to think, well I’m going viral. Now what you’re going to do is you’re not going to hope you’re going viral , you’re just going to make sure it’s a matter of testing.

I’ve seen a ton of [pages 00:12:42] that when they’re started they didn’t go viral because on average every single person did not result in more than one person, because maybe too many people dropped off at the opt-in bait or maybe too many people dropped off at the thank you bait where you get them to share. When you start optimizing, I want to have the best kind of opt-in bait and I want to have the best kind of message that gets them to actually share.

When you start optimizing it, then it’s only a matter of time until that number is going over one, and from that point on, that’s where it takes over. I could go into all the math, but I think that’s a bit too boring. The main point of what I’m saying is that it’s really … It doesn’t have anything to do with luck, it’s just math. It’s really just optimize until you reach that point.

For example, last August I launched a campaign where I gave a simple tool away if five of your friends sign up as well. When I started off I wasn’t going viral right away, so I just started really small, started testing, doing all these things, and from that point on … As soon as I hit that number, I went over one I just let it go. I never touched it again and I actually just looked at the stats just before [inaudible 00:13:52] and right now we’re just over 300,000 visitors so far, and that’s expensive traffic.

Once you have that number, and your number’s right, then every single day new people are coming into your funnel. They’re gonna go “Oh, wow that’s awesome, I can get this for free,” and that’s why-

Cindy: And it starts again.

Wilco: Yeah. For me personally I think the biggest … Free traffic is awesome, but I think for me personally the best thing about this is

that it’s not depending on any platform. I’ve had a couple times in the past where I was doing … I was doing a lot of Ad Sense. At some point, boom, Ad Sense had come and gone. I was back to square zero. I learned from that. A couple years later I was getting all my traffic from Google AdWords. Same thing happens, boom gone. [crosstalk 00:14:45]

With this model it’s not depending on any traffic source, or any network like Facebook, or twitter. It’s really depending on people wanting to promote you whatever platform it is. We see they do it everywhere. They do it on Facebook, on twitter, they do it by email. Even if you would take away Facebook or even if you would take away twitter, people will find a way to get to their friends because that’s what it’s all about. It’s not about Facebook trick, or a twitter trick, it’s all about people wanting to promote you. That’s what I think is the best thing about it, because we all know Facebook is not going to be there forever, twitter is not going to be there forever.

Things change, except for this human nature. That’s really something that won’t change as much over time, at least not as fast. That’s what I’m excited about.

Cindy: That is amazing. That is just so cool. All right, questions. I would like to know how … I don’t know if you’re even going to be able to answer this, but I think people are probably wondering, how do you find that thing that is going to go viral? You can’t just grab a random thing and say “Hey everybody, come and share this.” Where do you come up with the ideas for making something actually go viral?

Wilco: Sure thing, so the first I always ask myself is, first of all, what kind of business am I in, because there’s no reason to go viral … You could say “Hey, I’m giving away an iPad,” but that’s not what you want, because people who want a free iPad, they’re not going to be the same kind of people to buy a product. For example, if you sell online marketing stuff.

First of all, you want to have your business clear because it’s not about going viral. In the end it’s all about our ROI. I’m a numbers guy so it has to be a good ROI. That’s always the first thing. What you want to do, in your market, or in your audience that you want to have you have to ask yourself what do they want?

People ask me “what should I give away?” The same thing is, what could you sell them? What is that that you could have that you could sell them? This could be, for example, a tool what I like, what I said, but this could also be a guide or an e-book or a solve a certain problem, or a video where you solve a certain problem. Maybe if you have, for example, any events coming up you can give them an event, or if you have an infomercial, it could be a discount coupon for example, for something you[inaudible 00:17:10]. If you sell something … You could give away your product.

What I’ve seen a lot of people do, which is awesome as well, some people think I sell this product and maybe it’s even a simple … It’s not something people would share it for, but it … Sometimes you can just customize an item. If I were to give you a book. You get the book which has the autograph of the author [crosstalk 00:17:36] and a personal note in it. That’s is like, wow. Sometimes you can make … You can add a lot of perceived value without spending any extra money on it. One thing that I, that’s worthwhile as well, I’ve been talking about giving something away in return for getting people to sign up.

What you could also do, and a lot of people are doing it is instead of doing it like that where you give something away to everyone who reaches that point, you basically make a contest out of it, and you say “Hey, we have this awesome prize,” and if you only have to give it away once you can really spend a bit more on that. Which could be your own product or which could be a related product, and you say “hey, you know what, if you enter an email address you have a chance of winning. Here’s your unique link, and every single time one of your friends signs up you’ll get 20 extra entries in the contest.” Not just one extra entry, because then they’ll be like “Well I’m getting one extra entry, but my friend’s-“[crosstalk 00:18:30] Now you have one and every single time you get you friends to sign up, you get 20 extra entries in the contest so you get 20 more times higher. If I get five people to sign up, I get 101 entries in that contest, First it’s just one. I’m ahead of everyone else. That’s what drives them.

For example, we had one of our customers who did that exact same thing, he started the contest. He bought five related products on Amazon, which were $20 each, so he spent $100 on prizes. He then started promoting, and it just took off. He added over 100,000 subscriber within a single month just by doing a contest. Actually he did, you get 10 extra entries in the contest, which, same thing.

Cindy: You get more by sharing.

Wilco: Exactly. You’re doing the exact same thing, you’re giving them perceived value because you’re giving them a much, much higher chance [crosstalk 00:19:30]

Cindy: It actually does another psychological thing here because if one of their friends has referred them, and then they see … They sign up and then they see that, my friend actually just got 10, they’re actually beating me as far as entries go. I want to win. I want to beat them. There’s a lot of cool psychology that plays in there as well.

Wilco: Exactly. There’s a lot of things that you could do with that. If it’s a product you can easily give away to everyone, but if you have an actual store … Obviously you don’t want to send something out to everyone because that’s going to be way too costly. In that case I definitely recommend to make a contest out of it, so you’ll know exactly, I’m only going to give away three of those things, for example. [crosstalk 00:20:21]

Cindy: If you do samples for your company. If you’ve got something where you’re offering a sample or some sort of entry level kind of thing. Or consultancy, between that branch with thousands of people, that might be tricky. That’s fantastic. I’ve kept you for a little while now. Do you have any last closing words of awesome? Anything last minute to share with these guys before we wrap it up?

Wilco: I think one thing that I just want to … I don’t want to make this a big thing, but I want to make sure that … Over the last few years I’ve

been spending a lot of time and effort on that. A couple years back I was thinking about sharing a lot of this information as well, and at that point I knew that if I was going to share all of this information that I would do two things. First of all people are going to be like “Yeah that’s awesome, I want to do this,” and then right after they’re going to be like “How do I do that?” There’s no way to actually give everyone their own unique [crosstalk 00:21:23] that’s automatically sent out, exactly.

I decided to keep it to myself for a few years, and I’m going to build a platform that makes all of this possible, and that platform is called UpViral. You can find it on If all this sounds interesting to you, then head over to, check it out, because that’s the exact platform that we built for exactly this. Everything I just described, you can do that, all and more as well, but you can do all of that. It automatically keeps track of it all, and it gives all the links. It automatically sends out the rewards, or if you do a contest it automatically picks the winner. It’s all hands on, all does it for you, but that’s what I’m really excited about so I figured if anyone is interested in doing all this, which I highly recommend, then go check it out. If you want to ask me anything you can always look me up. Just Google me, Wilco. You’ll find me on Facebook, just send me a personal message or just ask, say “Hey, how do I reach that Wilco guy?”

Cindy: Oh good. What I will actually do for you 7 Figure Furnace listeners, if you came upon this podcast via iTunes go over to the blog. If you’re actually already on the blog then it’s easy for you. Just have a look below this podcast and you’ll see some links there. I’ll throw in a few extra, so if you want to get in touch with Wilco then you can do that too, but also if you want to check out his products, have a look below. If you’re listening via the podcast, go to and look up for Wilco. Also if you want to throw in a comment or a question or anything else, some feedback or whatever in the comment section, by all means throw it on down there as well.

It has been wonderful having you here Wilco. I love your energy, and I love being able to just kick around some geeky marketing ideas, so thank you so much for being on the show.

Wilco: Thanks for having me Cindy.

Cindy: All right, I’ll talk to you soon then, bye.

Wilco: Talk to you soon.

Cindy: Earl, it is so fantastic to have you here on the show. For people who are just listening, who are tuned into 7 Figure Furnace today, who haven’t heard about you, why don’t you just tell us a little bit about Earl Flormata?

Earl: I’m known on the internet as the Evil Marketing Genius, everyone hires me to sell all sorts of random thing for them, from software to memory foam dog beds, that’s probably the weirdest thing I’ve ever sold. Smiley faces and ring tones probably are up there, too.

Cindy: Oh my gosh.

Earl: Can you believe it?

Cindy: That’s crazy. I think the most random thing that I’ve sold was a piano, via … It was a piano and it wasn’t just a piano, it was a piano and about a three-year supply of supplies for a survivalist bunker.

Earl: Was that the same offer? That’d be one hell of a thing …

Cindy: It was the same customer, it was via Amazon and I can just see someone sitting around playing piano and eating their little supplies.

Earl: Survival stuff and here’s my piano that I play with my knife.

Cindy: Oh dear. Today you’re going to be talking to us about content marketing, which I’m excited about hearing, because I want to learn more about this. First of all, how did you get started in content marketing?

Earl: Dragged, kicking and screaming. I didn’t want to go, actually, I just fell into it. My background is, actually I’m a programmer, and then I became an IT guy. Then someone said, “Hey, Earl, you’d be really good at marketing.” To prove them wrong, I went and did it. I was just going to say, “Hey look, I failed. It was miserable, it didn’t work out.” Ended up making more money in a month than I did in a year and I’m like, “I think I’m in the wrong industry.” Then I switched gears. Literally, dragged, kicking and screaming, I didn’t want to go. Now here I am.

Cindy: That’s like when you ask your husband to do the laundry, your husband has to do the laundry and you throw in a red sock just so that you screw the whole thing up, you actually made it work.

Earl: I tried to screw it up, I actually did, I honestly did. I did everything that I thought that you probably shouldn’t do and then, who knew, it worked. I’m like, “Well damn.”

Cindy: Oh gosh. What is, for out listeners, what is content marketing?

Earl: Content marketing is really just exposing what you know, as an expert, putting it out there on the internet, being helpful and useful to people. Answering their questions before they ask them, and in doing so, you set yourself [inaudible 02:49], everyone else charges for all this extra stuff and the hilarious thing is you give it away during coffee meetings anyway. Why not systemize it to give it away properly?

Cindy: Okay, so how do you go about doing that?

Earl: Structuring it. There’s a couple of different frame works that you want to look at for putting your content in, such that it makes it easier to put it out there. Content marketing is a daunting thing, people look at it and they go, “Well, I don’t want to make my own Wikipedia, that’s a lot of stuff.”

If you start building things correctly, you end up making, literally funny enough, your own Wikipedia on your particular subject matter expert. Before you know it, these little steps toward thought leadership end up becoming thought leadership. How about going there.

There’s a couple of different frame works that I utilize. One of them comes from Micheal Cannings, from ages and ages ago, from a system that he used to exploit the video systems. Where people would put a bunch of videos up on the internet and that would just rank like crazy. This was circa 2000, holy crap, 2000, so sixteen years ago. I’m still using his frame work and it’s called the 10 X 10 X 4, it’s a bunch of questions that you answer, prior to the customer asking them.

Everyone’s got the frequently asked questions, then you’ve got the should ask questions, those are the meat ones. The frequently asked questions, I’ll give you an example. A good example is the poor guy who works at the front of Disney Land. He gets asked the same question a bajillion times a day and I’m surprised that he doesn’t go postal and start killing people. It’s the question, where’s the castle?

Everyone’s got this question that gets asked thirty thousand times a week, where’s the castle, where’s the castle, where’s the castle? All he needs to do is answer it on a video on the internet. Then, hilariously enough, that ranks like crazy because people are actually Googling that thing. What people don’t realize is You Tube is the second biggest search engine in the world. Nobody wants to read anything so they put it on You Tube, put the answer in, and if you show up guess what? You’re the new expert.

Cindy: Do you mainly do video? Is that your thing?

Earl: No, we actually do all of the above and the reason why I say do video first is because video gives you multiple ways to strip that video out and turn it into more things. A video gives you a video, obviously. If you work out the audio, now you have the audio. If you take that audio and transcribe it, now you have an article.

Cindy: Okay, yeah.

Earl: Take the video, take still shots of the video, overlay a couple of screens and do some text, now it turns into a slide show.

Cindy: That sounds pretty easy then. For people that are putting things together, it’s not that hard, then you’ve got a whole bunch of different content that you can just spit out there.

Earl: Precisely, and you have no idea what your readership or listenership wants to do. You have no idea if they want to watch a video. You have no idea if they’d rather listen to it in the car on the way to work, to the office. You have no idea if they’re a reader.

For example, everyone tells me video is the best converting thing in the universe, but not for me, I actually hate the video. I don’t like watching video, because it goes at the pace of slowest listener. That’s what people are supposed to do, you’re supposed to pace it out so that everybody can benefit. I read like a demon, apparently. My dad beat me into speed reading as a young child, so I speed read everything. If I read something I can absorb that content faster and this is why we do video. You do the video, you do the audio, and you do the text so that people can consume it the way they want to consume it.

Cindy: How do you find which niche, maybe we could talk a little bit about how … If you’re going to build, maybe an authority site or something, how do you determine what’s going to work?

Earl: The funny thing is you can find what’s going to work just by asking Google. Google trend is your friend. You can look at Google trend and it will actually show you what’s working, what’s not working, et cetera, et cetera.

I’ll give you an example, I published some books at Amazon and I had no idea what the hell to publish, I’m not a writer, I decided, literally, outsource the entire thing. All I did was I looked up, what’s trending? I found out what was trending, I got in front of that and I just pushed that, and answered the questions that people particularly ask.

One of the books, for example, was on diabetes. I’m not a doctor, I have a hard time spelling diabetes. What I ended up doing was …

Cindy: You can read it really fast though.

Earl: I can read it really fast, but if you ask me to spell it I’ll be like blah, blah. What happened was I just looked up ones they weren’t asking about these things. The hilarious thing is there wasn’t a collection of answers on the most basic of things like, once you get diagnosed, now what? Do I have to change my diet? Do I have to change the way, can I not drink soft drinks anymore? How many times will I have to stab myself with that thing and check my blood? All those questions that people have, there’s not one little collection of them all.

The hilarious thing is once you’ve got this going, you can then leverage it. Yahoo Answers, Quora, there’s a million question sites out there, they’re all asking the same thing. What happens is you build this content frame work of a base, and then you push it out there. Then you just answer people’s questions with the answers that you’ve already pre-recorded, and you look like a genius.

Cindy: That’s awesome. I’m trying to find a website that I stumbled across the other day. You can actually put a word in, and it pins what, how, who, where. It creates an entire … Do you remember what it’s called?

Earl: I know what you’re talking about, but it’s on the tip of my tongue, too. I don’t remember what it’s called.

Cindy: Okay.

Earl: I have seen it and I used it a week ago.

Cindy: I will find it, I will find it. I don’t know. I will mention it later on once I work out, oh, here it is. Here it is, we’re getting really close. Sorry, here you go if you’re listening. It’s worth it, seriously, it’s really, really cool. Nope, so close, nearly there. Answer The Public, that’s it,

Earl: Answer the public, yes, yes, yes.

Cindy: Answer the public. I think that will work in perfectly with what we’re talking about here, because you can put it a word, and then it creates a bunch of questions relating to that. It actually searches Google and it finds questions that people type into Google, then pulls them. You could take those and build an entire website around those, or a print out or something.

Earl: Yeah, totally. Auto Google, Auto Complete is also your friend, if you start typing something and Google suggests a bunch of stuff, that means people are searching for it because that’s what people are typing in t the search query.

You can also look at, Quora was a good one, mosaicHUB is another good one. There’s all sorts of these places, even LinkedIn. On LinkedIn, on the boards, people ask questions all the time. If you answer these questions and the neat part is because if you’ve done it through video, audio and an article and you point to this website blog or whatever else, they like you right away. Because they get to see you talk and see you speak and see you move and do your thing. You magically build a report with a gajillion people over night.

The secret sauce was taking that one video, pointing them to a landing page. The landing page goes, “Hey, you want to see nineteen more of these?” They’re like, “Well, yeah.” If they want to know about that thing, they want to know as much as they possibly can. They put in their email, once you have the email, you’re a marketer, too, you know what to do with that.

Cindy: Yeah, but if you’re answering a whole bunch, you’ve already created the content, haven’t you? You can just use the content that you’re answering all these other questions, on your blog and around the place, and then turn it into a give-away thing and get people on your mailing list. Then, is that where you start to monetize it, how do you actually monetize, where do you make your money?

Earl: Typically you make it on, well, evil marketing guy, you do it everywhere. What happens is that, if I wanted to do it everywhere, I would monetized the site.

Number one, after entering the twenty questions, I also would … A lot of sites don’t explain what all the jargon in their place means. There’s three letter, four letter, five letter acronyms that are normal common place in the place that we might work, but the outside has no idea what the hell that means. Explaining that stuff in plain English goes a long way, too. I actually make a dictionary, depending on the type of client that I work with. We literally have a letter from A all the way to Z, with one term in their space and they just shoot these things out again.

Monetizing this is simple, you put Google Ad Words, AdSense on the pages where you have all this free content and then if they want more, they type in their email address. They get the whole thing all bundled up in a a pretty looking PDF or video or whatever, what have you. Once they’ve got that, then they want to see the rest of your stuff because you’ve given away what more than most people charge for, in a single swing. They’re like, “If this guy’s giving this stuff way, what the heck is he selling? I need to buy this guys stuff.” Sometimes it’s just a reciprocity thing, you’ve given them so much, they just want to buy your stuff as a way to thank you.

You give them that trip wire, that five dollar, seven dollar item. “Hey, this is awesome, five bucks, for the whole collection? Yeah, wonderful.” If you want to see a really good example of this, there’s a site called BabyPips, It teaches people how to trade on the foreign exchange market.

The hilarity of the entire thing is that they give away the whole course for free, whole course is for free. If you just sit there and hit the next button the entire time, you can get the whole course for free. If you want it in one happy looking PDF that you can actually reference, it’s ten bucks or whatever it is. Instead of sitting there and going like this and pushing the button a million and hitting print screen, you just give the guy ten bucks and it looks nice, as opposed to a webpage.

Cindy: It’s easy, you can just flick through it, you can refer to it without having to go back X number of pages. People don’t mind paying for it, if it’s going to be an easily digestible format. Earl: Most definitely.

Cindy: Do you do affiliate promotions as well? Do you promote other people’s products if it ties in with what you’re doing? Or do you generally try and keep the sale in with your products?

Earl: Oh no, we monetize it every way possible. What happens is that sometimes, depending on the site or whatever else, we’ll allow sponsors to come on board and they can advertise as a banner. We can affiliate, if there’s no sponsor at that given point in time, we do Google AdSense. You monetize this thing like crazy. Here’s a bunch of recommended resources, guess what, they’re pointed to Amazon. Guess what, they’re all my affiliate link. Even if you don’t buy something from me, I’ve just cookied you. If you buy a lawnmower, I make money, yay.

Cindy: Or a piano and three years supply of survival …

Earl: Right, and a dog bed, so there you go.

Cindy: Right. That is awesome. Do you have any other things that you can share, as far as content marketers go? People are starting, what other things do they really need to know?

Earl: People think that you have to make so much content, it’s crazy, actually, no you don’t. Funny, it’s never the thing, it’s the thing that sells the thing.

Cindy: Can you hear that? I hope this isn’t too loud, but there’s a big helicopter going right …

Earl: It sounded like a helicopter.

Cindy: We’re not going to war or anything. It’s flying really close. Sorry, guys, carry on.

Earl: I remember Frank Kern and John Reece were harassing somebody with a helicopter once and that was hilarious. Maybe they’re bugging you. Anyway, other things that you can do is keeping top of mind. There’s another campaign that I run called 365. What happens is that you actually come up with three hundred and sixty five interesting facts about your subject.

Cindy: Oh wow okay.

Earl: For example, I used to be a chief marketing officer for a very large app company. What we ended up dong was putting out funny facts about apps. One of the funny facts was more people in the world own a smart phone than a toothbrush. Which is very unfortunate, but it’s a funny fact that, top of mind, people are like, “Well, that’s cool.” You just drop these things out through social media.

What happens is you feed these things out. Day one, you push it to the blog, day two you push it to Twitter. Wait two days, push it to Facebook, wait another two days, push it to LinkedIn. The reason for doing these things, if you can tie those things in with the video that you made earlier, all the better.

What happens is that you can just recycle, reuse the same content over and over and over again because you have no idea what’s going to trigger somebody’s interest. You write these seven hundred, eight hundred, thousand word articles or whatever content type you create, but there’s lots of little gold nuggets in there. The funny thing is, everyone’s finding …

Cindy: Not everything is going to apply to everyone, or appeal to everyone.

Earl: Right. You have no idea which gold nugget will attract people. There’s an article that’s three years old, but it’s an evergreen and you look at a couple of different angles and you push out those angles through, even the funny facts that you push out, you can get the funny facts yourself. If you pull them out of your articles, you push them out in social media. The toothbrush thing for the mobile app might be the thing that gets you the hundred thousand dollar client. You have no idea what gets their attention. On some day someone has an app idea, they’ve always wanted to act on it, they finally see the toothbrush thing and they’re like, “That’s freaking hilarious, I’m going to call this guy.” That’s legit happened.

Cindy: That is cool. With the toothbrush and phone thing, you’re grateful that they’re on the phone and not face-to-face.

Earl: Right, exactly. A lot of the clients I don’t actually meet. The funny thing is the joke has come up, the clients actually admit that they haven’t brushed their teeth yet. I’m like, “Thank you for meeting me on the phone.”

Cindy: Wow. That’s beautiful. For people that want to just get started, we’ve discussed it. A lot of what you can do, just go start finding questions, answering them. Create videos, use those videos and then apply them. Can you think of any little bits and pieces that we might have missed? That seems pretty straight forward for anyone to just come and pick up and get happening, right?

Earl: That’s all there is to it. The funny thing is I’ve told this to countless, countless people. Only a handful have taken me up on it as clients.

People who do this and then the funny thing is they become a celebrity in their industry.

There was one guy in the financial services industry. Everybody in the financial services wants marketing and nobody wants to do everything. The hilarious thing is he took my words to heart, actually shot a bunch of these things. The funny thing is did it all wrong, he screwed up the structure, he screwed up everything. Still, he made a bunch of these videos, he did it with bad lighting, he looked like he was in a cave, he looked scary. I’m like, “Dude, that was horrible.”

The funny thing is he went to a convention, I kid you not, three months later and everyone there knew who he was. Everyone there knew his name and everyone was mad because he was giving away stuff that they charged for. The customers now love him …

Cindy: The funny thing is most of the content that you can present is already on Google, you just have to go and find it. You don’t have to be an expert. Knowing something about a topic makes it easier, but you don’t have to be an expert to begin with.

Earl: No, not even. You can instantly become an expert. Remember the definition of an expert is just some guy who knows more stuff than you. If they read thirty five articles on something, guess what? They probably know more about it than you do. Immediately they can answer the most basic of questions because they’ve seen those same facts presented over and over and over again. They’ve had that repetition, they can now say it with a air of confidence saying, “Hey, I’ve seen this a billion times. Guess what? This is the answer to your question, boom.”

Cindy: Yeah, absolutely.

Earl: Just give yourself the confidence. If you know more than somebody else and you’re willing to share, then they’re happy to give you the business.

Cindy: Do you do these for your own websites or do you find clients and then you build them out for clients? Can you recommend, if you’re doing it for clients, can you recommend any way to go and get clients, if our customers are interested? We don’t want to steal your clients.

Earl: There’s so many clients, it’s insane. This is like shooting fish in a barrel, in terms of building out a content marketing strategy. There aren’t a lot of people who are doing this properly. Even the guys who claim to be content marketing specialists, aren’t doing this properly, there’s a lot of people out there. The funny thing is this is the basis of all SEO, search engine optimization needs good content. If you’re not making good content, I don’t care, you’re not going to rank for long. If you’re racing somebody with a good content plan, they’ll beat you. That is why this is so important.

Search engine marketing, if you’re paying for your traffic and all that kind of stuff. Doing this stuff builds a quality score base, Google sees you as relevant. If you have all this stuff on your landing page, all of a sudden your clicks are cheaper.

The same thing goes with Facebook relevancy, I like this, I like that, da, da, da. They look on your page, they find stuff that they like and all of a sudden you’re more likable, you’re more relevant, you’re more giving than everybody else. This stuff feeds right into social media, too. You answer the questions and people respond back and if you take that engagement then you ask them, what else do you want to know? They give you the next set of questions that everybody’s going to ask you anyway. Then you answer them all …

Cindy: Then you save their time, yeah, and you have a whole bunch of extra content.

Earl: You have to answer the question anyway. Someone’s going to call you, they’re going to ask you about this stuff, you might as well turn it into a content piece. Now, the shy people who are too afraid to ask you in person, I need to know the answer to this. You’ve given it to them in a nice easy, friendly way, if they’re weird and they don’t want to talk to you. They can watch the video and “Look, this guy said this. That’s awesome, let’s do this.” That’s how it goes.

Cindy: Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing a whole bunch of actual actionable content. I think our guys are going to get a real kick out of this. Do you have last minute bits and pieces that you might want to share with our 7 Figure Furnace listeners?

Earl: Sure, once you have all this stuff down, believe it or not, you actually have enough for a book. Once you’d done all these steps, you actually have enough for a book. Here’s the hilarious thing, if you want to beat your competition to whatever contract or client or whatever else, publish that book. Publish it on Amazon, now all of a sudden you’re an Amazon publisher, and you’re like, what?

When you want to go beat out the competition, this is the evil marketing trick, print out a legit, print out a copy of the book, have one physically done, hard copy. When you go to the client to make your pitch, after your presentation, ask them to whom you should you make out the book to. No one’s going to read your damn book, okay, no one’s going to read the book. In the back of their mind, everyone will be like, “Wait, that guy wrote the book on that subject.”

Cindy: Mm-hmm (affirmative), instant authority. Then it ends up on their bookshelf, too. People will come and see that.

Earl: Then you get hired for the gig, and then other people will go hey, whatever, and they pass the book along and you get another gig. It’s crazy, how much was that book? Eighteen dollars to print or something like that? You win five figure contracts with this kind of stuff. That’s exactly how you use this content to get ahead.

Cindy: That is fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Earl. It is great to have had you here. I appreciate all the input that you’ve had.

Earl: Cheers, no worries. Thanks, Cindy, for having me.

Cindy: Take care. Bye.

Earl: Bye for now.

Cindy: Oh my gosh, Steve, it is so good to have you here on the show. I’m really, really excited for you to be here. Thank you.

Steve: Thanks for having me. Let’s have some fun, right?

Cindy: Absolutely. Now for people who are listening in today who haven’t heard of you, I’m sure there’s probably a few people, maybe just a couple out there that might not have heard your name. Why don’t you tell us, who is Steve and what is your thing? What are we going to be talking about today?

Steve: Well, I think it depends on the day. If you ask my wife, I don’t think she still really knows what it is that I do. Among other things, I own, so if you like to drink, then go check that out. That’s all about mixology and cocktail culture, which is good quality fun there. I put a book on the New York Times list called “What Is Your What? Discover The One Amazing Thing You Were Born To Do.” So really helping people and corporations get clear on what that one thing is, but really the focus now for the past good little while has been on Push Button Influence, and Push Button Influence is really all about teaching people how to get massive visibility at virtually no cost by leveraging the power of new media, which is something you could probably speak to as well.

Cindy: Yeah, well I would hope so. In this podcast series we’re actually covering a whole bunch of different traffic techniques, so I thought if anyone who knows anything about this kind of traffic generation, it’s got to be you.

Steve: I know a little bit.

Cindy: Just a little?

Steve: A little bit here, a little bit there.

Cindy: Okay. So when it comes to generating traffic using your method, where does someone start?

Steve: You know, it’s interesting… S,o the landscape in and of itself has … It’s really kind of come onto the scene in a way where there’s still a lot of nooks and crannies, if you will, that people just aren’t even really familiar with, so I think the place to start is really just understanding what the whole landscape looks like in this new media world, which boils down to understanding what your options are. Ultimately, you can’t make a decision, choose a path, until you know how many paths there are and then choose the one that seems to best resonate with your natural gifts and potentially even where your people gather. When you think about social media Cindy, if I say, what do you think of when you think of LinkedIn? What sort of people go on LinkedIn? How would you describe those people?

Cindy: Business people, I guess. Business people. People who are looking to build their businesses. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah, right? Yeah, and so when I say you’re looking for a social media platform that focuses on arts and crafts and pictures and that sort of thing, what comes to mind?

Cindy: I don’t know. I would Google that. Oh, maybe Pinterest? Pinterest! Ah, I got it.

Steve: Yeah, so there you go. So, the point being that each of the various arenas of the new media landscape has that same sort of nuances and rules of engagement and ways of operating, et cetera. That, to me, is always going to be the first place to start is make sure you understand the entity that you’re dealing with.

Cindy: Okay. You cover a lot of different areas, then. In a lot of stuff, when I do training, I talk to people about finding your focus because if you don’t know what it is that you’re trying to do, then it’s really hard to get enthusiasm. It’s really hard to actually get any momentum if you don’t know where you’re headed or what it is that you’re supposed to be doing. If you’re trying to drive traffic using social media, you’re just saying to find the actual proper platform … So do you recommend trying to be everywhere in every place, because some people will say you can have … You should have Twitter, you should have Facebook, you should have … some people, Pinterest, I guess, so you should have a presence everywhere. Or are you saying to just focus on one thing?

Steve: Here’s what I know, and that is that it’s possible to be everywhere, and I think that when you get to a certain point, it would make sense to have multiple online presence, if you will, in terms of the different media that are available, but the only time to do that is when you have the scale and the ability to do that. In other words, when you can hire it out.

I believe that there’s that line in the sand that you cross from just kind of having this as a little bit of a hobby and trying to make a few bucks, to quitting the day job and then making it your full-time thing, and then there’s another line that you cross when you can actually afford to hire somebody else. Most people start with the day job and then figure out how to transition into this, so that they can cut that rope.

That, to me, is really the first year, probably more like the first two and even sometimes the first three years of just being dedicated to your craft and picking a horse and riding it. I would highly recommend that people choose a platform for the foreseeable future and commit to it. Fully commit to it, because what ends up happening is a lot of people don’t get the results they want in a quick enough amount of time. That’s just never going to happen in terms of getting the results you want quick. This instant gratification world we live in doesn’t really do anybody … It’s a disservice to everybody, so you’ve got to really understand that the people who apparently have become these huge overnight success, they’ve been in the game for a long time.

Pick the platform and then literally commit to spending a year on it. Now if it’s a podcast, like what you’re doing, I would say that you have to release at least one or two shows on a weekly basis for a year, and then re-evaluate where you’re at and decide if that’s the path you want to continue to go down. But so long as you see your numbers and you have metrics to work with, as long as you see your numbers continuing to climb, then it’s probably a good indication that you found a good platform. If the numbers go up and then just kind of plateau, then it may not be the right platform for you.

Cindy: It’s sort of about finding what works with you, so if some of our listeners, they might have a blog, they might have a product or something, and they really want to try to work out a way to get traffic from social media and start to become more of an authority figure in their niche, do you have any tips or suggestions for someone that is just wanting to start out and just get recognized? Obviously, find your platform and get started. Be consistent. Do you have any other tips that you can share for them?

Steve: I think that it’s a matter of really doing the research and really understanding … As you said, once you know where your efforts and your abilities and your strengths are, that’s part of the battle, but the bigger part of the battle is really being clear on who the people are that you’re most compelled to serve.

In the “What Is Your What?” framework, I take people through that process of understanding what that core gift is, what the primary vehicle is that they’ll use to share that gift, and then who the people are that they’re most compelled to serve. Just because you understand what your niche is, you know its massage or whatever it might be, it may not necessarily mean that you’re clear on the people that you’re most compelled to serve.

That’s where I highly suggest that people dig in deep to figure out exactly who those people are and then do the research that you need to do in order to find out where they gather and how they like to consume their content. They’ll tell you, but if you don’t know who they are, you can’t ask.

Cindy: So you need to do this before you choose which platform it is that you’re throwing yourself into for a year.

Steve: I believe that is the right way to do it.

Cindy: Yeah. That sounds really great. How do you monetize it? Say people already have a product or they have some sort of lead capture funnel or that kind of thing. What is your way of recommending for someone that has … what do you think works best with social media?

Steve: Again, social media is just part of the new media equation. You’ve also got live streaming, which people seem to be digging right now. We actually do a weekly show on Blab and we’ve found some pretty good success there with our show. Then there’s also things like live audio and there’s also mobile apps, and there’s other areas of new media that people can focus on.

When you look at the whole question around monetization, I’m not sure that it’s the right question necessarily because your people, if you ask them, they will tell you what they want. I believe that you have to do what you talked about first, which is getting the visibility, and once you get the visibility, then you get the engagement. The engagement being, responses on your blog, it could be comments about your videos, whatever it might be, and it could also be opting in, to request more information from you or to be kept up to date on the things that you’re doing.

Then, and only then, once you have the engagement piece down, can you shift to enrolling, and enrolling is the time where you’ll be able to enroll them into something that they have said that they need. They’ll tell you. If you ask them, they will tell you what sort of training they need. They will tell you what sort of products they’re looking for. Then you create them, not the other way around.

Cindy: That totally makes sense. There are, as you mentioned, a lot of different platforms coming out and there’s always new stuff. At the moment, live broadcasting, there’s Blab, there’s so much …

Steve: Periscope, Meerkat

Cindy: And now Facebook Live. Where do you see things going in that direction? What do you forecast as being the next best thing? Next platform that you should be …

Steve: Yeah. I think Blab actually has done a really good job of capturing what people can reasonably do for the foreseeable future.

Technology will change and that will enable people to do things differently than they are right now, but in terms of a platform that allows you to interact in a meaningful way with a guest, allows you to interact in a meaningful way with the people who are attending that presentation, whatever that presentation might be, a platform that allows people to subscribe and enroll with what it is that you are doing, and the ability to literally bring people in and go face to face with them in real time, and the ability to already have a built-in audience because the people who come to Blab aren’t necessarily coming there because it’s your show. They’re coming to Blab looking for content. They’re coming to Blab looking for programming.

I believe that that is the platform for the foreseeable future that really is probably … I don’t want to knock anybody else, but I think the way that they have it structured is really head and shoulders above the other options right now in that space.

Cindy: Okay. Can you tell people who are starting out with Blab, some of our listeners might not have even heard of Blab. If they’re starting out, have you got some tips for people that are doing and using that platform?

Steve: Yes, and the first tip is just go to and that’s an actual URL, Go there and see what’s going on. Watch a few shows. See how the engagement works. See how you can ask questions. See how you can engage with other people who are also watching the same show. See how you can engage and get the attention of the host who is putting on the show. Look at the different formats. Just because it’s one platform doesn’t mean that everybody’s using the same format. Look at the different formats that people are using, and that’ll give you an opportunity to really start honing in on what you might want to do with your show, if you choose to go in that direction. Again, I don’t recommend that anyone starts on any platform until they’ve really become quite comfortable with how it works.

Cindy: You need to go and see how it works before you just throw yourself into it.

Steve: Yeah.

Cindy: Yeah, exactly. For people that aren’t really confident on camera or don’t even want to be on camera or something, how do people like that still use this whole new media? Is there any way that people can benefit from it?

Steve: Sure. There are different options. Not the least of which is podcasting, like what you’re doing and what many, many others are doing, but that’s still in very much in the embryonic stages. There are, I think the last number I heard was something like five billion websites. It’s an insane number of websites, and the number of podcasts is about 285,000. Still very much in the embryonic stages, so if you don’t like video, podcasting is certainly a really good option. At the same token, there are other live platforms that work well with audio also, like zcast, the letter z cast, is kind of like live streaming for audio. You then have like blog talk radio and other internet radio stations as well, so there are more options for audio than just podcasting.

Cindy: That’s fantastic, and that’s definitely something that you don’t really need a lot of expenses to dive into to represent your company or your brand and start building that without a massive investment, so definitely something that anyone can get started on.

Steve: Yeah, and that’s a nice thing about it is the old media in terms of the way that it worked with TV and radio and print, is you basically had to get past the gatekeeper, the gatekeeper who decided what would air, when it would air, how it would air, and who would be in it. Now you just don’t need anybody’s permission to start your own show, so you start your own show, you build your own tribe, you build your own following, and then, lo and behold as you start to get more recognition and you differentiate yourself from others … Especially those who are in commodity oriented businesses, you have to do something to differentiate yourself from the others who are in that arena.

So when you then get into this world, you’ll find that while there are expenses, the expenses are pretty minimal. Pretty minimal when you come right down to it. So yeah, that’s the beautiful thing about it is that technology has finally caught up with demand in terms of what people want to be able to do. They can do what they want to be able to do for really just pennies a day. It’s incredibly affordable to get into this space.

Cindy: As far as podcasting, there’s actually not really a lot blocking anyone. You just record it and then you upload it and then they approve it. It’s on iTunes. They weren’t fussy, really.

Steve: Well, yes and no. Not to get too technical, but you do need someone to host the file so that you can then tie it into that feed and that costs, not a lot, but there is an expense to that.

Cindy: I’m using a service and I think it’s about $9 a month, and you just upload it there and it automatically delivers it.

Steve: I just don’t want to give people the impression that it’s 100 percent free, because even blogging, if you want to get into blogging which is another way that you can do what you want to do without going onto video, you still need a website. Even if it’s a WordPress plugin and whatnot, or you can go on Tumblr, I guess, and just create a free blog there with Tumblr or with Medium or one of those, so I guess there’s no cost there but you’ve still got to access the internet.

Cindy: Yes. Nothing’s ever going to be completely free. We’re talking about setting up [crosstalk 00:19:01]. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. It’s been wonderful having you on the show, Steve. Do you have any final tidbits that you would like to share? I know that you’re a busy man and gotta cruise. Do you have anything that you could share with our guys before we head off?

Steve: I do think that if you are in business and you are looking to generate more leads, more clicks, have more enrolment conversations, differentiate yourself from your competition, and do something where you become really known as the go-to person in that particular space, you’ve got to do something. I know that you have a message to share. I know that there are people who are literally waiting for you right now to show up in their life, so you’ve just got to throw caution to the wind and really be willing to broadcast your brilliance, which is the premise of Push Button Influence, and certainly that’s where we believe the future is. Certainly it’s beginning to show more and more that the playing field is now truly level. The average Joe can compete with those really big type players with the very deep pockets and get the kind of traffic that was historically only reserved for those who were in that upper, upper echelon of that particular world. This is the right time, and I encourage you to get into the game now because the only thing that’s going to happen between now and a year from now is more people are going to get into the space and you’re going to wish you got into it sooner.

Cindy: That is fantastic and yes, guys, so take action. If you’re on the blog, the 7 Figure Furnace blog, have a look below. There’s going to be some links there if you want to go and check out more of Steve’s stuff. He has some incredible tools to share, so make sure that you go check it out at Thank you, Steve, for being on the show. It’s been wonderful to have you here.

Steve: Thanks for having me.

Cindy: All right. I’ll talk again with you soon. Bye.

Steve: Bye-bye.

Cindy: In this episode number 9, I interview Mark Anastasi. He is an internet entrepreneur, an international speaker, and the author of New York Times best-seller and Wall Street best-seller Laptop Millionaire, well The Laptop Millionaire. He’s been doing some incredible things with webinars including how he is spending $2,000 in solo ads that he got. He had 800 registrations on his webinar and then he pushed them to 2,200 webinar registrations, and he generated over $200,000 in sales in 19 minutes. This guy here is he has a whole lot to share about webinars registrations and I appreciate you being here Mark. I know that you have a lot more to share than just that. Today Mark is going to be sharing a whole lot of things about how to benefit, how to change it from webinars versus stage, how to press the webinar, how to sequence it, how to … all sorts of things. Mark I’m really, really happy for you to be here today. Thanks for joining us.

Mark: Thank you very much Cindy. Thank you for this opportunity to share with you and with your audience. It’s great to catch up with you again. I don’t know if a lot of people know that you used to live in Cyprus, in the island of Cyprus in the Mediterranean.

Cindy: Yes just around the corner.

Mark: Absolutely, and so we all missed you out in Cyprus, out here in Europe.

Cindy: I miss you guys and congratulations on your cute little babies, your twins.

Mark: Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.

Cindy: Let’s talk a little bit about how, because you are mostly known for your stage presence, you are able to pack in people. You’ve spoken in 116 countries and you’ve also managed to transfer that stage presence into online webinars, what is the difference? Maybe you can start by that and why did you choose to do webinars and get more webinar registrations? What’s the difference between stage presentation and webinars? How did you make the transition?

Mark: Well, for me it started out back in 2003 when I was broke and homeless and I was just depressed. I attended a personal development seminar in London and it just completely transformed my life. I won’t say overnight but very quickly. It just changed every aspect of my life, my feelings about myself and later on I applied this also to starting a new business. Thanks to attending a business seminar that also changed my life financially speaking. From there early on I wanted to kind of give back and pay it back and I wanted to become a speaker so that I could share with people the transformation that I had experienced in my own life by transforming my mindset.

I changed my mindset and then boom, everything changed in my life. I started out by writing e-books and I published the e-books and that went very well. I used the income I was generating from e- books and of my online ventures to set up a seminar company. I’ve had 16,000 people attend my seminars. My marketing has always been very, very average and kind of home spun, not very elaborate or sophisticated. It has just been me putting on a video or writing a sales page saying, “Listen, you’ve got to come to this seminar. It’s awesome. You are going to learn about this, this, and this. It’s going to change your life.” Because I really wanted to convey that, I genuinely wanted people to attend the seminar and to transform their lives, to touch their lives I feel that why … I think on some level, on some organic heart to heart level, people were feeling that the that’s why they were showing up at my events.

Like I said my marketing was very basic, very unsophisticated. Back in 2010, 2009 rather the Australian speaker Steven Essa, I flew him over to the UK, he spoke at my event, the speed cash seminar and he explained to us, back in 2009, how he was using webinars. He was getting his clients to create amazing businesses thanks webinars but I wasn’t using webinars yet, it actually took over a year to get around to doing my first webinar. I did the first webinar in May 2010. I’ll get to that but to answer your question to whether I’m using e-books or seminars or webinars or it’s a book or is a teleseminar or an interview, it doesn’t really matter. It’s all the same thing. It’s just me sharing value, sharing information, sharing what I’m passionate about with my audience, with people out there. I don’t really view it as, oh I was doing seminars and now I’m doing webinars or I’m doing … Why I’m I doing webinars? Why am I doing seminars?

It all comes from the same place of wanting to reach as large of people as possible.

Seminars, I think, they are fantastic because they can create more of a deep impact in people. It’s a total immersion environment and you have them there for one, two, three, four days and you get more of a chance to affect their mindsets, transform their mindsets, and have them and experience real transformation in their lives but with webinars, the benefit is of course that people don’t have to travel over there. You don’t have to spend $20,000 or £20,000 to put on an event. you don’t have all those expenses. People can tune in for 60 minutes, 30 minutes, 90 minutes from all around the world and listen the what you have the say. There is pros and cons of international businesses Cindy as I do I. our clients are from all over the world and webinars are a great way to add value and reach out to everyone.

Personally I prefer seminars because they are face to face and there is a different energy to it. You really get to connect with people. You really get to see them face to face, eye to eye, really get to listen to the experiences that they have had in their lives and what challenges they have had. What they need. What worked for them as well. I wrote my book, The Laptop Millionaire, which was based on out of the thousands of clients and seminars that we have had over the years, what strategies really, really worked for them, for about 35 of them and I included them in the book. That’s where the idea for the book came from. Webinars, seminars, they are very different but I’ll say this, if you have a highly converting 90- minutes webinar PowerPoint presentation, it will confer just as well if not better in front of a live audience.

There is not much of a difference between doing a sales pitch on a webinar and doing one on a live stage. It’s pretty much the same structure in a 90 minute presentation. You got to do the introduction and speak about yourself, your journey, what you have achieved, why you are here in this webinar, and then teach some content, then transition into the closing if you enjoyed this presentation, if you learned something, if you are interested in this topic then you probably need our help with, dah, dah, dah, and this is why we’ve created this brand new offer and this is what is in this offer. You explain the benefits. You explain the features of it. You add some bonuses to it, you recap … there is a whole sequence to creating a sales pose which I probably won’t get into right now because its, there is many great courses out there about it but to answer your question again, to get back to your question, webinars or seminars to me it’s the same thing. It’s two different modalities of and opportunities to reach to people and share with them something that can help their lives.

Cindy: Yeah, it funny that mentioned about the real energy that [inaudible 00:08:30]to be able to have to do anything the that you believe in your products, you need to believe … you are not trying to sell someone but actually trying to help them better their lives and improve their lives. That’s what everyone I’ve ever spoken to who they 100% believe [inaudible 00:08:50] it’s not crap. They are not just trying shove it and make a few dollars. If you are going to be really successful you have to your own what it is you are doing and really you get excited about it. I want to talk a little bit about, different ways that you fill your webinars, because that is something that you are pretty actually stand out, awesome at and I’m sure our listeners and fans would love to hear about how you fill your webinar. Can you share some tricks there?

Mark: Absolutely, so, actually I created a course for our coaching clients called 14 ways to fill your webinars. I will share with you these different strategies and I can go into more detail in any specific. Let me just … I’ll share the list.

Cindy: That will be awesome.

Mark: Then we can discuss a couple of them if you want. Filling your webinars, of course I’ll say this; email marketing is by far the best way, the most instant way, the most powerful way to do it. In fact I will say, if you want to have success online, if you want to have an online business probably one of the most key things you need to do is build an email list. I’ve built an email list of about 6,000 people back in 2005, 6,000 email subscribers in 2005 and I’ve generated, I don’t know, maybe 5, 6 million dollars in sales just from that initial list of 6,000 people. It has built to about 20,000 now, 50,000 subscribers but the point is that building a mailing list it’s so powerful.

Filling your webinars first and foremost either build up your email list, do whatever it takes to build up your email list or use the email list of the person, the expert that you are interviewing on the webinar. The expert that is presenting the webinar. It depends whether you are doing your own webinar or you are doing a joint venture webinar with someone but either your mailing list or the expert presenting the webinar. His mailing list or her mailing list that is the first point. You need to have an email mailing list.

If you don’t have an email mailing list then get you joint venture partners to promote your webinar for you. How can you get other people with mailing list to promote your webinar for them? Be resourceful, create value for them. Find a way. Figure out a way to add value to them first. This month add value to three or four, five, six of your JV partners. Figure out what they need. Figure out how the help them. When I was starting out, I went to various seminars in London. I introduced myself to the speakers and I didn’t have much of a mailing list. I didn’t even use a mailing list when I was starting out but I knew about how to post e-books online, how to publish e-books online. I said to them, “Hey, listen, I loved your seminar. I can publish your e-book online for you for free. It will be a passive income for you. I will do it for you for free just because I enjoyed your presentation.”

I was basically building a relationship with them. Adding value to them first and then they gladly promoted me to their audience. This is not what I had in mind at the time but that is how it has worked itself out. When you give value to these people, chances are they will want to give back to you as well. Promoting your email list. If you don’t have JV partners, if you don’t have an email list but you have a bit of capital, you can buy some solo ads. I’ll say this about solo ads, my first ever webinar in 2010, I emailed my mailing list. I said I’m doing a webinar first time ever and we had 800 people register for the webinar. I thought, “Okay this is going to be a successful webinar. It’s going to work quite well but I want to get more registrations for this high converting webinar and I contacted two marketers that I knew. One had a list of 500,000 subscribers. Another one had a list of 50,000 subscribers. I gave them both the same offer.

I said, “I’ll pay you $1,000 if you promote this webinar to your list this week.”They both sent out the emails. I sent them $1,000 each and my registrations went from 800 to 2,200. They added some extra 1,400 registrations, about 757, 770 People showed up on the webinar or maybe even as many as 800 showed up on the webinar and that generated $100,000 on the webinar and $100,000 with the three webinar replays that we did. That was $200,000 in total from that first ever webinar that I ran. Like I said I bought essentially two solo ads. What I find works better now is if you are going to use solo ads, if you are going to go through that expense, solo ads can be a bit hit or miss but if you have a great source of solo ads, don’t use it to promote a webinar. Use it to build to build your email list and then promote a webinar to your email list because people buy from people they know, like, and trust. People who show up on the webinar of people they.

What I would say about solo ads and what I recommend people do is that instead of just using solo ads to promote a webinar directly, you should use solo ads and use really good solo ads with some solo ads from some great suppliers of solo ads not all solo ads are equal but you should use solo ads to build your email list and then promote a webinar to your email list. Actually build your email list using solo ads, build a relationship with your new subscribers and then promote a webinar, is how I would put it. Because people tend to buy from people they know, like, and trust and people tend to register for webinar when those webinars are recommended by people they know, like, and trust. That’s important to keep in mind.

Promoting webinars via emails, that’s very important email marketing, solo ads. Build up an audience on Facebook. Spend time, spend even 12 months, spend an year to build up a massive audience on Facebook, it’s going to be worthwhile. Post on your wall two or three times a day. Remind people, all your Facebook friends, your Facebook fans, your Facebook group members, let them know that you are having a webinar on, create Facebook events. I create a Facebook events for my Facebook page and Facebook event for my other Facebook page and Facebook events for my friends, and Facebook … basically it’s free to do so. It’s free to have a Facebook account. It’s free to create Facebook events. Use those tools that are available to you on Facebook.

Also use to build up an audience of people on Facebook. It’s not the best most powerful strategy but it can work. This is what I mean, back a few years ago I spent $390 to buy 78 gigs on fivver basically …

Cindy: That’s a lot of gigs.

Mark: That is a lot of gigs. I basically found people on fiver inviting their Facebook friends to your Facebook groups. I created Facebook groups and I paid somebody $5 to invite all of their friends to my Facebook group. For example, the passive income Facebook group. In the space of about 3 weeks, I had 22,000 new Facebook group members. I spent $390. I got an audience of 22,000 new Facebook group members. Keep in mind these people, they are not my friends yet. They just registered for a group but what it meant was when I was posting updates on these Facebook groups or on these

Facebook pages they would see them, they would see these updates on their newsfeed for free.

It wasn’t costing me anything basically, as a test because this was all part of a new marketing experiment that I was doing, I promoted my webinar for one week just on Facebook without paying for ads just on Facebook to my audience of 22,000 Facebook friends and Facebook group members and Facebook fans and I got 700 registrations for the webinar in one week for free just by doing this. I say for free, I spent $390 …

Cindy: That is amazing [inaudible 00:18:16]

Mark: Sorry Cindy, can you repeat that please? When you post on Facebook …

Cindy: [inaudible 00:18:36] for people to come in and check it out. It’s not just a notification, they will get a notification in their email as well.

Mark: Absolutely, absolutely, yes and a lot of things have changed since I last did this experiment but nowadays on you have so many different ways of getting people to promote your links or your webinars even to their audience. For example, you can have them retweet or tweet to their Twitter followers the link to your webinar and that is sort of another way of doing it using just or or to get people to tweet about your webinar. Which reminds me actually, another thing that you can do with Facebook and this is something that a coaching client of mine Irina Milova used very successfully. You can ask the administrators of successful Facebook fan pages whether you can post your webinar, your webinar link, on their Facebook fan page.

Let’s say there is a relevant Facebook page with 30,000 Facebook fans on it, you can contact the administrator of this Facebook fan page and say, “I have a webinar that is relevant to your audience, would it be okay if I post this link inviting people to this webinar on your Facebook fan page. Irina she said this, she emailed me saying this, “I contacted the administrators of 20 large Facebook pages, asking for their permission to place the webinar link on their page and 50% of them, half of them said yes.” That was quite an interesting experiment as well.

Cindy: That is amazing.

Mark: You can go to Facebook …

Cindy: My daughter, sorry on that subject, my daughter has actually built a massive Facebook following in her group and she doesn’t have to pay for it. All she does is find related groups contact [inaudible 00:21:00]

Mark: Amazing, amazing so she basically tells them, “I’ll recommend your group to my people if you recommend my group to your people. We do swaps of that nature.”

Mark: Amazing, amazing, I held recently a seminar, the prosperity power workshop, and I kept reminding people there that you biggest resource is your own resourcefulness. Your biggest resource is your own resourcefulness and these are beautiful examples of exactly the sentiment behind that statement that there is so much available to us, so many opportunities and you just got to think a little bit outside of the box. You got to be resourceful. You got ask 20 people, “Hey is it okay, so we do a swap and recommend each other’s Facebook groups to each other. Is it okay if I add value to your audience by doing a webinar for them?” Another client of mine, her name is Lucy Johnson and Lucy attended some of our events back in 2009, 2010.

She tried to make money online, it wasn’t working. She spent £10,000 to get a website created for her. It didn’t make her any money. She was a former fitness instructor an aerobics instructor and personal trainer. In the end she just gave up. She said, “You know what? Nothing is working for me but I have all this great information about how personal trainers can got more clients, I’m just going to do a free webinar and I’ll just do it once to share my content, to share my knowledge and that’s it. I give up on the whole internet marketing thing.” She did a webinar out of the love in her heart that she wanted to help personal trainers with this information. She contacted two fitness instructors with mailing lists. She said, “Listen, I have a great webinar I just created. Is it okay if I present it? I’m not selling anything. I don’t want anything. I just have some content I’d like to share with your people. Is that okay?” these two people said, “Yeah, okay, that’s fine.”

She did the two webinars. She wasn’t selling anything. But got a ton of webinar registrations.  People loved the webinar so much that they were begging her, they were asking her, “Please can I buy from you this is great content? What’s the next step? Can I get coaching?” she made £17,000 later that week by selling to the people who loved her free webinar.

Cindy: That’s incredible.

Mark: It’s the moment she stopped trying to make money and just came from the heart and shared some great content with people and boom, things started to flow. Now she does over, I think £1.5 million a year, £1.7 million a year, £2 million a year. She is living in a $25,000 a month massive villa in Marbeya. it’s incredible what she has achieved in the space of just five years because … It started with just I want to help personal trainers get more clients and I want to share this information with people. It started with webinars. Your biggest resource is your own resourcefulness. Contact people, contact people with mailing lists, contact people with large audiences. Get them to tweet about you, get them to comment about you, get them to post your webinar link on their Facebook groups, the Facebook fan pages, for example, be resourceful. Invite the members of your linkedIn group, post on LinkedIn, build an audience on LinkedIn. I mentioned creating a Facebook event.

LinkedIn ads and Facebook ads, we have used those very successfully to get registrations for live seminars but I haven’t used them for webinar, so I’m not sure about how they would work in terms of webinar but I see webinars promoted all the time on Facebook by, I think, Robert Kiyosaki or [Havelka 00:25:20], so that must work on some level. It all depends, of course on your marketing funnel, your lead acquisition costs. If it costs you $5 to get a lead through advertising on LinkedIn or Facebook perhaps but you know it’s going to make $20 on the back end then great, use Facebook ads and LinkedIn all day long, but like I said it depends on your lead acquisition cost and your value per visitor value per prospect in a sense the value per lead in your own marketing funnel.

Other strategies for filling events, one strategy which is quite fun, which I’ve used very successfully to promote books has been paying bloggers to basically promote whatever it is that you want to promote. Whether it is a book or a webinar. There is websites like or S-M-O-R-T-Y,,,, there is a bunch more where bloggers will basically say, “I will review your webinar or video or your book et cetera in exchange for $10, $15, $20, $30 and upwards from there. That’s some of the most successful marketing I’ve done for promoting my book. It has been very successful in that regard.

Cindy: [inaudible 00:26:56]stuff like that.

Mark: You don’t write it yourself, they would write it for you. Sometimes they do ask for like can you give me some content.

Cindy: A bit of an outline.

Mark: To make it easier for them but typically what I find is whether it’s $10 or $15 or $1,000 for a blogger, a blogger with a huge audience, they actually want to review the video or review the book themselves and typically what they will do is they will have, they will say some nice things about it but they will also say one or two things that are a little bit less not 100% complement. They might say, “Oh, well I thought it was too long or it was great content this or that but it was too long or it was great book. I learnt fantastic strategies but at times it sounded more like a sales page or something to that regard.” They keep it more …

Cindy: It’s more realistic then too.

Mark: Exactly, these are the kinds of things people can do to fill their webinars. There is a story I like to share about one of our students. His name is Volagi, Volagi I don’t remember his surname but Volagi attended one of our events. He learned about this strategy of being resourceful and joint venturing and getting some traffic and he contacted an internet marketer by the name of Kavit Haria who was promoting some social media webinar and he says, “Kavit, can we do a joint venture webinar please? You will present the webinar Kavit but I will promote the webinar and I will fill the webinar and we split the sales 50/50.” Kavit said yes and basically Volagi used these types of strategy. He used social media. He used his own small mailing list at the time but he basically got 760 clicks, 760 people to basically click on the webinar link.

About 300 of them registered, 114 people attended the event, the webinar and they generated $11,500 in sales. Basically Volagi …

Cindy: Love it!

Mark: I know, it’s absolutely amazing because he hadn’t spent any money to build and he didn’t have much on his mailing list, he had maybe 1,000 people in his mailing list. Using social media, emailing his email list a few times, he got 760 clicks and that was turned into $11,500 which meant basically what about 6,000, there is $05,750 for Kavit, the presenter, and the same amount for Volagi. Again I love these stories. These are the kind of stories I put into my book. This is why I remember them and know them and I like to share them because it’s examples of people like when I was starting out, all I knew about internet marketing was that I Hotmail email account and that was it. That was all I knew about it.

I love the idea that you can learn something, change your mindset, learn something, be resourceful, get resourceful, make things happen, put a few things together, and boom suddenly you have income out of nothing. Out of just your thoughts.

Cindy: It’s incredible, isn’t it?

Mark: Yeah [crosstalk 00:30:29]

Cindy: Back in the day when I was … Oh, sorry

Mark: What you share about your daughter as well that’s fantastic, that kind of mindset and resourceful, that’s great.

Cindy: Well, it incredible and you talk about Hotmail, back in the day when I was learning my way around this and it’s about being resourceful

and learning as you go. Googling the crap out of everything. I actually thought HTML was an abbreviation for Hotmail. It was so funny. You learn, don’t you?

Mark: That just reminds me of some joke things that I saw like moms who use messages like text messages and abbreviations and this mow that basically wrote to us, hey have a nice day at work WTF. The son wrote back and said, Mom, what do you mean WTF? What do you think mom the word WTF means?

Cindy: Oh dear.

Mark: She was like, what was it, wonderful thank for everything or something like that. Anyway I wish I remembered I would’ve actually completely messed with the punch line.

Cindy: I know, she totally missed that.

Mark: HTML, Hotmail, great, fantastic.

Cindy: I learned it’s not Hotmail. We are probably going to have wrap things up pretty soon. You’ve shared a ton of incredible stuff. We

had a couple of people asking, if English is not your first language, how can you still make money with webinars? Do you have any tips? Do you have any examples of people?

Mark: I’m French and I grew up in Greece, so English is my third language but that’s one example.

Cindy: You have a very strong grasp of the English language …

Mark: My grandmother is English, so that helps I’m being a bit but you are saying people that speak a little bit of English or don’t speak any English at all.

Cindy: They speak a little bit of … yeah. They speak a little bit of English but they are not comfortable enough to hold webinars themselves in English.

Mark: Okay, well I’ll say the first thing is that who said that you need to do webinars just in English? We have the idea because we speak English, we do business in that language, we have the idea, oh webinars can only but in English. Of course not, that’s insane. It can be in any language. In fact it might work even better if you do it in your language, in French or in Italian or in German. In fact I actually have a lot of clients who do webinars very successfully in Italy, in Belgium, Germany and it works even better in their markets because they are not as saturated or in their market, in their language webinars are something, wow this is incredible whereas it might be more common place in the US or in the UK.

What else can I say? If English is not your first language, you can always hire somebody to, even an actor, if you get in you can pay somebody $50, $80 an actor to be the persona, that English language persona for you business. Again I know a lot of people who would actually rather remain, what is it called?

Cindy: Anonymous.

Mark: Anonymous, thank you, that’s exactly what they do. They have an online persona, I’m thinking of Cyprus guy I know specifically. They have an online persona and it’s an actor, American actor, that they pay $80 to basically do their videos for them, present for them and they just tell them what they want to be said and you have the actor in American voice doing that work. That is one way of doing it but also at the end of the day if you are promoting somebody else’s webinar and they speak English maybe you don’t need to be the one introducing the webinar. Maybe you can have somebody spend three, four minutes at the beginning introducing the webinar and you know how to do the marketing and that’s your value add in that transaction. Do you have anything else you want to add about this?Have you …

Cindy: Now that we are talking about it, now that we have just started talking it’s sort of jogging my memory a little bit here when

[inaudible 00:35:23] we released Clickbank Pirate and it was like one of the biggest selling things that we did like way back in the day. Our top affiliate was French and he spoke English, he was able to take what we had and then he translated it into French and he would hold training, live training, they weren’t called webinars back then but he would hold sessions where he would just pull a bunch of people together and he would present them in French. He was one of our top affiliates. I completely forgot about that but yeah you are right.

Mark: Amazing, amazing in these market if people think, oh, it has to be in English, no it’s really doesn’t and I have seen many people take that strategies that we use successfully in England or in the US and do very, very well in other European languages. I say European languages because that’s, we have a lot of European clients attend our events but I also know in South America people have been very successful in South America with using these very strategies as well.

Cindy: Absolutely, that’s awesome. Do you have any last minutes bits and pieces that like to share before we wrap this up?

Mark: I just want to share one story and it’s one of my favorite webinar registrations stories. One of our clients and his name is Tom. He is an Australian guy. When I found him, when he first attended the seminar somewhere in 2009, he was living, sleeping on the floor in a bedroom in his girlfriend’s house, actually his girlfriend’s parent’s house. A young 24-year-old Australian, parents insisted that he had to sleep in a separate bedroom blah, blah, blah, and here is what he did, he attended a training via social media. He had about 3,000 people in Facebook and on Twitter and he started using Facebook and Twitter. He could get some free clicks on Facebook and Twitter. Then he learned about webinars probably from Steven Essa presenting of this speakers seminar of ours.

Stephen Essa who happen to be my brother-in-law now, he is the webinar expert from Australia and our young Australian friend Tom in London learnt about webinars, learn about licensing. I gave some examples of times I’d licensed courses, people had licensed my DVDs and then sold them and things of the nature. Here is what happened about six months later, one of our clients said to me, “Mark I have this software that adds friends on Facebook an autopilot. Are you interested in promoting it? We can join venture.” At the time I was just too busy. I had so many things going on. I said, “You know what? I’m sorry I don’t have time for this. I’m that not interested to be honest it’s not my thing but listen my friend Tom here knows a lot about …” I don’t know why I recommended him to Tom but basically I put those two people together.

What Tom did is he basically did a deal with this software developer, he said, “Yeah, I will license the software for you and I will pay you $2,000 to basically license this software for me.” The software developer was super happy, wow $2,000 for something I created. This is great. Our friend Tom started selling this software for $2,000 a pop on webinar in the space of about four months. He did $2.4 million in sales. He created a webinar presentation that was just converting like crazy. Everybody started promoting his webinar. He was doing like 7, 8, 9, 10 JV webinars a week to the biggest list possible. He did $2.4 million. Of course there were refunds and stuff like that and we had to split 50/50 with the other JV partners that were promoting this webinar but still it was an unbelievable transformation in his finances as you can imagine.

Cindy: That is incredible.

Mark: Just one last 30 seconds story. My sister Karina who was unemployed for a year, she worked in film production in Greece.

She got fired five times from five different TV production companies. She was unemployed for an year. She came over to Cyprus to spend time with me. I worked on her mindset. I gave this course by Steven Essa, this course on webinars. I said, “Listen, study this course and I want you to do you first webinar a week from now. She did and she presented her first webinar. I promoted it to my list and we had about 300 people on the webinar and she made 16 sales at a $1,000 per sale. $16,000 in sales from her first ever webinar.

I should say that what she did before hand in the first month having an online business she basically got 100,000 Twitter followers. The webinar was called how to get 100,000 Twitter followers in 30 days and her coaching program was, I will coach you on how to get 100,000 Twitter followers. She got 16 sales. She made $16,000 and she said to me that in her job in TV production, getting paid like 500 bucks a month in Greece, she would have had to work two years to make what she had made in 19 minutes on her first webinar.

Cindy: That’s incredible and that’s life changing, isn’t it?

Mark: Of course, of course, and again these are kinds of stories that I like to collect and to share and I have many more. A lot of them are in chapter 11 of my book, The Laptop Millionaire. That’s the chapter devoted to webinars and it’s just amazing how powerful webinars can be. That my last little tidbit on that note.

Cindy: That is amazing and thank you so much for sharing all of these stories and thank you for your time and all of your input today. I’m sure everyone is going to love this content. Thanks for joining us. Mark: Thank you very much Cindy. Thank you very much, take care.

Cindy: All right, talk to you soon, bye.

webinar registrations

Cindy Donovan: In this episode number seven, I interview Mark Thompson, he has been creating products and building a massive online business for ten years now selling over twenty million dollars in products sales.

During this episode, Mark is going to be discussing some strategies that he uses to fill his webinars as well as some tricks that people just starting out with webinars can use to pull more people in. He’s going to share some strategies about how to maximize registration page conversions and how to make the most out of your follow up sequences, but most of all, how to get more people out of your webinars. Thank you Mark, very fantastic to have you here.

Mark Thompson: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

Cindy Donovan: Lets start straight in here. What do you think is the best source of traffic for filling up webinars.

Mark Thompson: Well, the best source is going to be your own internal email list but I’m sure there is going to be a lot of people listening that don’t have an email list. You need to do one of two things. One , you could try to drive paid traffic to your registration page or you can try to leverage other people’s authority, influence and their email list to try to fill those spots. I would prefer to try to find other people that help fill those spots just because, obviously if you are paying for traffic and you are driving people to a registration page, you are only going to get a fraction of those people to register, and if this is an especially new webinar that you are running, you are not really sure how well its going to convert.

There is a bit of a risk there because you are going to be investing into paid traffic that you are not really sure what your return on investment is going to be. I always try to leverage other people’s email lists or affiliate partners to help fill the spots for the webinar.

Cindy Donovan: Okay, that’s fantastic. Did you have any sources … You’ve been doing this for a while, you have your connections and your list of affiliates. How do you reach out to get more people to want to promote for your webinar

Mark Thompson: So, there are two things. One, you could hire a JV broker or a JV manager, someone who already has the relationships with affiliates and vendors who have an email list. The only downfall of that would be that you are going to pay them some sort of percentage generally for the number of sales you make on the webinar. If you hire a JV broker, probably about 10% of the sales will go to that JV broker, that’s how they make their money. It’s a great way to get to start getting introduced to other vendors and affiliates who have an email list.

That would probably be the easiest route to go. You may not make as much money, but it’s a good starting point and then you could start to leverage each of those relationships that the JV broker makes for you for the future. You can start to fun future webinars or maybe other products that you have webinars for. You can start to leverage those relationships that you build. That’s the first way.

The other way would be to partner with someone that already has relationships with affiliates and make them part of the actual webinar or part of the launch. Then just you are basically leveraging their audience, their network of people that they know. Those are probably the two quickest ways that you can really get introduced to affiliates that you maybe don’t already know or if you are just starting out.

Cindy Donovan: Right, okay. Do you have any actual places that you can recommend for people to find people like these. How do you track down people that can help you?

Mark Thompson: It depends, I guess it depends on what niche you are in. If you are in the internet marketing space which I would assume a lot of you guys are, you can go to JVNotifyPro which is run by a guy named Mike Merz who is a JV broker. He does a lot of brokering for vendors. That would be a good place to start, JVNotifyPro. You can also just look … there’s product launch boards like or where vendors are launching products.

Generally if you see people launching lots of products on these launch boards, they probably have relationships with affiliates and already have an email list. You can start to connect with them and hopefully they will buy into your products. Always have something to sell them or a reason for them to want to partner with you an open up their rolodex of partners. The ultimate key here is to have a good product, already have the webinar presentation ready to go. It’s really easy to bring someone on and say, “Hey, I already have this product, I already have this webinar presentation. Maybe we’ll tweak it together, but its ready to go, its ready to start making money.”

In the internet marketing space, its fairly easy to find either JV brokers or people to partner with, but in other spaces like the dating or the weight loss or whatever niche that you are in, what I would recommend doing is just go into Google and searching JV broker and then the niche that you are in or JV manager and then the niche that you are in. Not every niche is going to have official JV brokers but a lot of the larger niches will.

You could do that and then also just having your finger on the pulse in terms of where are people going in your niche, what blogs, what forums, what websites, what products are people buying in your space and then try to reverse engineer … Try to find out how you can contact those vendors and see if they’ll be open to some sort of joint venture opportunity.

Cindy Donovan: Right, that’s awesome. Have you done anything as far as social media, like trying to bring extra people into your webinars using social media, maybe Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or even SEO. Do you do anything outside of email lists?

Mark Thompson: Yeah. Not so much with SEO because SEO takes a lot of time to rank your site. With a webinar, its more of a times event. Usually you start promoting a webinar two or three days from when the event is going to actually happen. From an SEO standpoint, you really can’t optimize it very well for such. From a social standpoint, there is definitely some things you can do. Obviously, if you have a strategy in place to build your social presence, if you have a Facebook fan page or people following you on Twitter, or Snapchat or Periscope or any of those social media platforms.

That’s obviously a way you can channel those people from your social media into a webinar registration page. You can do that. If you don’t have those social media presences built up yet, you can do paid traffic. Probably the most used would be Facebook ads. You can start targeting specific likes and interests and start driving people into your webinar registration page that way.

Cindy Donovan: Right. Speaking about registration pages, maybe we can move on to that a little bit, because you do this quite well. Out of any registration pages and thank you page flow, you have got this nailed. What is your formula, what do you put on a Thank You page or in a registration page that people should really pay attention to?

Mark Thompson: Well, one thing I learned from … If you guys know who Jason Fladlien is, he sold 50 million dollars worth of products on webinars. I really try to study him and I’ve learned a lot from him. One of the things that he always says is to invoke curiosity on your registration page. Give them enough information that they are interested but don’t give them everything that you are going to talk about. Make them curious and invoke … That curiosity would make them want to register.

Secondly, come on to the webinar. From a copy standpoint, that’s what I would do. I would have a really good headline, good sub- headline and then three bullet points as to what they are going to learn on the call. Another thing that has rally helped is by doing a video. Having a video on your registration page and then having a video on your thank you page just to build that personal rapport with the person that’s about to register.

One thing that I always like to do on the thank you page is say,”Hey, thanks for registering. Now, make sure that you go and put this on your calendar so you don’t forget about it.” We always have buttons to add to your iCalendar or Google calendar, just to make sure that they know hey, just to set a reminder to make sure that they come on the call.

Cindy Donovan: Yeah. That totally makes sense. You are actually just giving that little bit of extra connection with your audience, I guess. On some thank you pages, I’ve seen them actually … I think there’s like some widgets and stuff that you can put there sometimes generates downloads so they can click it and it automatically adds it to their calendar. I’m not sure if you have used any of those but they look pretty neat.

Mark Thompson: Yeah. So, we’ve done that. We have it built in with webinar ignition product. We actually have a platform that does that. You can do it that way. Then I also know that click funnels … If you use click funnels they have a thank you page that allows you to add it to your iCalendar or your Google calendar. That helps but then … Another thing that we’ll do is we’ll put Facebook comments below the thank you page and just say, “Hey, what type of questions do you have?” Or “What type of things are you hoping to learn on this call?” Then, we can use those questions and that feedback and tweak the presentation a little based on the audience.

Cindy Donovan: Yeah. Exactly. If you are getting them to ask questions, then they are more likely they would want to show up for their answer, right?

Mark Thompson: Yeah, totally. That means, some of the things that we do are in the actual follow-up emails. They get an email right after they register but then, we also usually send them probably three to four reminder emails. Generally, 48 hours, 24 hours and then probably six hours and then probably 20 to 30 minutes right before the call. That’s probably the most important email to send out, just because people are busy, they are always doing different things, they are always getting a lot of emails. That email that you send right before the webinar starts will just remind them and say, “Hey, we are starting right now, make sure you get on the call.”

Cindy Donovan: It’s funny that you mention that because a lot of people would talk about increasing conversions on your registration page. You want to get a lot of people to register, but then, it’s just a given that not many people are going to show up, out of … If you can get 30% of registrations show up, that’s really good. Often its lower than that. When you can really push these people and encourage them to show up, then that really adds extra dollars to your end, in your bank, doesn’t that?

Mark Thompson: Yeah, the first part is obviously driving the right type of traffic. If you are using paid traffic or if you have partnered with someone that has an email list that’s not relevant to the offer, then they are probably not going to register or even show up. As you know, attendance rates are just dropping. They have dropped a lot since five years ago. Five years ago it was probably 50%, then it went down to 40 and now it honestly closer to 30. Anything that you can do sometimes will just bribe people and say, “hey, we want to give you an ethical bribe and say, hey for people that show up, we are going to have some sort of a bonus or we are going to give away an iPad or try to make it fun and incentivize them to come on.”

Cindy Donovan: Right. So when you are split, do you do split testing for your registration pages?

Mark: Not really, to be honest with you. We keep it very, very basic. We use like a click funnel’s template. A lot of the times, with clickfunnels, is they’ll do the testing for you and show you which open pages have the best conversions. We usually will just make sure we have the headlines, sub-headlines, a good video, three bullet points, just kind of all the basic elements on the page.

Cindy Donovan: Okay, that’s awesome. What about the follow up after. How do you actually sequence things so that after you finish the webinar, you can close those people that are just on the fence. Maybe you could talk about that a little.

Mark Thompson: Yeah, so there’s a few things that we’ll do. We usually we’ll have a replay up for about 72 hours. We’ll email them, it depends, if the webinar did really, really well on the live call, then we’ll email them that night. If it didn’t do that well, then we’ll email them the next day. What we’d like to do is try to save … Put something in the tank for later. Maybe we’ll add a few extra bonuses that we didn’t have on the live call.

We’ll always try to give them some sort of incentive to watch the replay or maybe they missed the live call, we just wan to get them to watch the replay or maybe they were on the live call and they didn’t buy. If we can get them to come to the replay, we can introduce some sort of additional bonuses or additional value, then that’s another reason to come on to the call. We’ll generally do a three day sequence and we’ll email them two to three times depending on how well it’s converting. We always try to push the last day, the close, the last 12 to 24 hours. Its really hard because that’s when you can start to get the fence sitters to turn into a buyer.

Cindy Donovan: Yeah, Excellent. Do you have any … What about pricing … Do you have … Obviously it depends on the product that you are going to be selling. Do you have experience in selling it as a once-off thing, whats your experience, selling once-off, doing payment plans or even re-carrying on a webinar. What’s your experience there?

Mark Thompson: Generally, I won’t do webinar unless its going to be $300 or more just because, to me a webinar kind of lends itself to having a higher ticket products. There is more interaction, you can overcome objections much easier on a webinar than a sales page. We tend to do mid to high tickets price points when it comes to pricing webinar products.

We also we’ll do … If it’s like a $1,000 product, we may also introduce like a two or a three time payment plan. A payment plan that will put on the replay as well. That works really well. That’s a great way to get people who were fence sitters on the live call to get them actually buy on our replays if we introduce a two or three time payment plan.

Cindy Donovan: Okay. Do yo make it so that it costs a little bit more with the payment plan or you just want to get the sale?

Mark Thompson: Yeah. Usually we’ll do it an extra 100 or 200 dollars depending on how much the product costs.

Cindy Donovan: Okay, Awesome. Do you have any advice for people just generally for webinars, if they are just looking to get started, say they have products that they think would be great just for generally getting started with webinars?

Mark Thompson: The first thing that I would do is watch as many webinars as you can and try to follow the people who conduct really good webinars.

You’ll start to notice as you watch webinars, people have a certain style and people have a certain formula that they use for every presentation regardless of what the product is or regardless of what niche they are in.

There are certain elements that they use inside of a webinar. It’s important to just reverse engineer an dissect each of their presentation. Whenever I see a webinar that I really like, I’ll make sure that I get the replay of it and I’ll download it to my local computer. I’ll just study it and just see what they did, just the way that they say things or the way that they position things. That’s a whole animal in itself and we could talk about that for hours, just how to go about creating a presentation that sells and how to pitch your product.

So for anybody who is just starting out, I would strongly recommend just reverse engineering and seeing what other people are doing and then just diving in because what happens is most people, they want to sell their products, they know that webinars are great platforms to do it, but they are nervous or don’t feel comfortable doing it. What I would recommend is do a dry run by yourself, like you were on a call with people listening and then just dive right into it. Like anything, practice makes perfect. When I first started, I was fumbling around, I didn’t know what I was doing. Just like anything else, you start to get more comfortable and it becomes kind of second nature.

Cindy Donovan: Right. You generally present very well in webinars and people connect with you. Do you have any…. Not everybody here English is their forte, they struggle to get in front of the camera. Can you give any tips for people maybe they can’t present it themselves or they have a great product but they need to find someone to help them to actually do the webinars, what would you suggest?

Mark Thompson: Yeah. That’s where a partner can come into play. If you could find someone that is comfortable on webinars, I understand that, like you said, not everybody … It’s not for everybody. Either having a partner or just go out and find someone who is in sales that’s comfortable with talking with people, or people that are on webinars. Sometimes, about to 40, 50 percent of the webinars that are done, they are not even done by the actual product creator. They are just the kind of pitch man, if you will. There’s nothing wrong with hiring someone to run or conduct the webinars. That’s an option.

You could also look into, once you’ve got a good webinar that converts really well, you can record that and actually make that a live call. You can play the recorded call live but have people that can answer questions in the background. Sometimes it’s not about just always having someone there that can actually run the live webinar over and over again. If you find one that converts really, really well, use that, play it like its live, but its recorded and then just have people in the background answering questions.

Cindy Donovan: Yeah, that’s an easy way around. We are probably going to wrap things up. Do you have any last minute tips or advice for people to do with webinars?

Mark Thompson: The first thing is like I said, just dive into it, just like anything, if so many people are just hesitant like I talk to people all the time that are like, “Oh, I want to create a product.” I always ask, “Why haven’t you? They are like, “I just haven’t done it.” They don’t actually go and do it. Don’t worry because along the way you are going to mess up, you are going to make mistakes. Don’t get turned off by that. If you do a webinar and it doesn’t convert well or something went wrong or you had a technical issue, so what? It happens, it happens.

Its something that you learn from ,you learn from your mistakes and just continue doing it. If its a hurdle that you are trying to overcome, do whatever you can to get over that hurdle because, this is where the internet is going with videos and webinars being a large component of it. It can really open the doors to so much opportunity for your business. It’s such a great way to sell specifically mid to high ticket products.

Cindy Donovan: Absolutely, that’s been great. Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge and I appreciate you jumping on the call.

Mark Thompson: Yeah, no problem. Great to be here. Cindy: All right. Thanks, talk to you soon. Mark: Bye.

Cindy: In this Episode #6, I interview Susan Bratton who has grossed over $250,000 in product sales during 18 hours of webinar-type live events. She held this over a three week period. What makes Susan’s approach unique is that this was done entirely outside of the make money online or the Internet marketing niche. Instead, targeting men interested in improving their sex lives and addressing men’s sexual health issues. With that in mind, please be aware the content in this podcast is going to be provocative and adult in nature and it’s not recommend for under-age listeners, so if that is you, please exit this broadcast now.

During this broadcast, Susan is going to share how she filled her webinar events, how she structured the entire series to sell multiple products, and the proven flow of the successful webinar, a lot of which is prerecorded. She can potentially be used for evergreen or automatic webinars as well.

After all of that, welcome Susan. It’s fantastic to have you here.

Susan: Oh, it’s my pleasure. I am so high on the concept of doing webinars and information product marketing that I really love to share everything that I’ve learned doing it with as many people as possible, because I love the format. It’s perfect for certain kinds of people. I happen to be one of them and you might, too.

Cindy: I think it’s fantastic because you really get to put your face on it and you get to connect with your people like nothing ever before. You had some insane results here. You were able to get 7,500 people registered for your webinar series. Of that, you had over 1,500 people show up on the first … Is that on the first one that you held? That is huge. You were obviously not using GoToWebinar, because they cap it at 1,000. What were you using?

Susan: I have been using … I started out using Stealth Seminars many years ago and I did a couple of webinars. One for my product called Revive Her Drive and the webinar was called Lust Triggers. Then I did another webinar for my product called Keep Her Coming. That was called Making her …

Cindy: I’m going to try not to giggle. I’m sorry.

Susan: I’m used to it. That was called Making Her Multi-Orgasmic. I actually co-created that with another friend of mine, Gabriel Moore. We created the funnel together and it was my front-end offer and her continuity offer because I didn’t have a continuity offer. We have been sending traffic to those particular funnels for years and years and years, because one of the great things about my business is is that though there are innovations in human sexuality, this whole operating system right here is a pretty stable operating system in actuality.

Cindy: Absolutely.

Susan: I love the idea of live events to evergreen. That is a fantastic model for me. When I heard from Mike Filsaime that he was launching Webinar Jam Studio and EverWebinar as an offer, as a platform, I immediately wanted to migrate to that. I heard Mike talking a lot about the value … Mike and Andy Jenkins, Marketing Genesis, talk a lot about the value of live events. In my industry, the default funnel is a VSL. Though I’ve written over 130 VSLs, I never really felt like they captured some of the things that I do really well. 1) I’m a sex educator so I love to teach people. 2) I like to be on video. I go on television all the time so why would I have a Keynote or PowerPoint-based VSL when I could actually do a live event and people could get to know, like, and trust me?

When we were starting … I found a product that … I actually promoted a product in 2013 called Multi-Orgasmic Lover for Men that I just loved. I loved the product. I was so happy that Jim Benson had made this product. Over the course of a few years, he and his partners had worked really hard to get the VSLs converting and they could never quite get it to be a highly converting offer. I went back to Jim and I said, “Hey, I’d like to license it and I’d like to use this workshop model. This idea that this is a live event, but it’s a men’s workshop where they get to come in. They get to try things. They get to have an experience using video. Then we’ll make it evergreen.”

That’s when we started using Webinar Jam Studio with the intent that we would split test a whole series of hooks for the Multi- Orgasmic Lover for Men program. There are some men who … They struggle to get hard. They struggle to achieve an erection. Other men struggle to stay hard. That’s called premature ejaculation so they’re always worried about that. There are other men who are okay in the zone of their own ejaculatory choice but their woman isn’t having orgasms when they’re making love to her. That actually is something that’s in his control as well. Then there are other guys who are just really interested in what it takes … what is male multiple orgasm? How do you do that? Could I do it? How would I do it?

We split tested three different … We did a bunch of market research and we found out what guys are most interested in that this particular program solved the problem of and then we did three different live events to test which one converted the best.

Cindy: Okay.

Susan: We did each of the live events two times, which I’ll explain in the flow of how we did the testing.

Cindy: That’s fantastic. Basically, it was the same product.

Susan: Yes.

Cindy: That you licensed. You didn’t even create the product.

Susan: He created such a great product, why would I go out and make it? I just love to license incredible things from incredible people.

Cindy: Okay. Then you developed three separate funnels and then put them into selling the same product. For the actual … Let’s talk a little bit about the actual sequencing of that webinar. Were there some aspects that you were able to keep and repeat? You had to build separate front-end funnels to get these three different groups of men into these things, but where there some stuff that you could use again or did you have to create separate training things for each of them?

Susan: Here’s what we did: the first thing we did was we wrote the first script. The first one we did was how to become a multi-orgasmic man. The second one we did was how to give a woman vaginal orgasms through penetration or lovemaking. The third one was how to get hard, stay hard, and last as long as you want. We started in that order. We didn’t know which one of the three would work the best, which one of the three our partners would want to mail to the most, any of that stuff. We had 18 of our closest JV partners send us warm traffic to all three funnels.

We started with the male multiple orgasm one. We did it on a Wednesday. We wrote the script for … Six weeks in advance we wrote the script and then we practiced it about eight times just over Skype, Jim and I did, so we could get ready. Then we did the live event with the script that we’d written and we realized, “Oh, we need to move this. We need to put this here. This needs to go to the end. We need to X this whole thing out.”

What we had done was we had actually gone to a video studio and we had recorded entire segments of the workshop in advance because we didn’t feel, being brand new to running a live event online, that we could handle our own interaction, the live chat. Oh my gosh, I really want to parking lot, for a minute, Cindy, the live chat, but I really want to come back to that because I think one of the pivotal things about doing these live online webinars.

We had testimonial videos already prerecorded that we inserted. The flow got better and better and better, because here’s what we did. The first one, we did the event. It was three hours long. We made the offer … We attempted to make the offer in the first hour. It was really tough to get to the offer because we just weren’t facile. We made the offer and then we just gave them more and stacked on more and more bonuses and bonuses and bonuses because …

Cindy: Three hours?

Susan: Three hours.

Cindy: That seems quite long. Were you breaking it up with some training as well or was it …

Susan: Yes. 30% of the people stayed all three hours. Cindy: Oh my gosh.

Susan: We had incredible stick rates.

Cindy: Wow.

Susan: Yeah, we told them about the knee breath technique and then we made them the offer for Multi-Orgasmic Lover for Men and then we went to … We gave away a prize. The prize we gave away was actually what was in our up sell funnel. For everyone who didn’t win it, because only one person won it, they got to hear all about it and then they didn’t win it. Then that was the up sell. That got us a 28% take rate on the up sell.

Cindy: Great, yup.

Susan: We went to another lesson that was, “And we’re going to teach you this thing,” you know? “Coming up next we’re going to … ” We dropped a ton of open loops. “Coming up next we’re going to teach you this technique.” We would run another video.

Cindy: That was another up sell, was it?

Susan: It was more like we stacked the bonuses with the lessons. Cindy: Okay.

Susan: We would teach a lesson and stack a bonus. Teach a lesson. Stack a bonus. We did that for a few hours, and then we went into Q and A. We had … We Pinned, saved all of the questions that were coming in from the chats that we couldn’t answer during the first hour or two, and then came back to them and we answered those systematically and then we stacked some more bonuses.

Cindy: Right.

Susan: We had another testimonial. We just kept edutaining our audience. Cindy: Yeah.

Susan: We had a big drop off. Two-thirds dropped off after the first hour, like they had planned to be there. They were there for an hour and then they were gone, but a third of them stayed for another two hours and we got a lot more sales by continuing to go on and on.

Cindy: What kind of press points were you selling at?

Susan: The Multi-Orgasmic Lover for Men is 197, or you could get three payments of 69.97 and we also had a PayPal credit option which a number of people use. Then there were up sells that were 47, 97, and, I think, we did another one that was 197 on top of that. A coaching offer that was 197.

Cindy: Okay. That’s still quite cheap considering a lot of the people in the Internet marketing space are used to selling things higher. Is this a product that sells normally online? Is it …

Susan: We only make it available if you come through the workshop and get the workshop special offer.

Cindy: Okay. Right.

Susan: It’s normally a $400 program. They could get it for $197 plus all the bonuses, so it was a $1,500 value for $197.

Cindy: Right. Yup, that’s … That sounds pretty sweet. Can you tell us … Actually, maybe you could tell us a little bit about the equipment set ups? You were telling us you went to a studio. Susan: It was so hard. It was so darn hard.

Cindy: Oh my gosh.

Susan: The actual equipment of recording the video was nothing. It was my Mac and I had a little … I’ll grab it for you. I had a little separate microphone. This is all it was. Was … I should have had it in my hand. Sorry. This mic, which is like a … What is it? I don’t even know what the brands is. Hang on, I’ll read it to you. It was quite good. It was Audio-Technica. My mic stand, which I duct taped onto my monitor and keyboard holder. It was USB. Wherever the bottom of this was. It was just a little USB cord that plugs in so this was a really nice spot mic that gave me a very warm sound.

Cindy: Okay.

Susan: The camera in my laptop. Webinar Jam Studio uses Google Hangouts so that was all the equipment that we needed.

Cindy: Okay. You don’t need to go absolutely overboard.

Susan: I did this because I’m vain. I had these. This is called a gold bounce. It’s just a little thing. It actually … You can actually have these and take them on the go. They’re just like those things that keep the sunlight out of your car, you know? That pop up like a windshield screen. Watch. This is going to go, “Boink!”

Well, she was really interesting til the gold bounce killed her.

Cindy: I’m sorry for you guys that are listening via podcast on [inaudible 00:13:19], but you might have to just chase us down for the video because Susan just nearly got attacked and taken down by a …

Susan: I had gold bounces because I like to look really pretty so we had a lighting kit that I ordered on with gold bounces aiming the light at me so that I looked … You could see all the sides of my face and everything. That was about it. Other then that it got so hot while we were recording during the fall that we literally had an air conditioner shipped to our house.

Cindy: Oh my gosh.

Susan: Blowing straight at me in the room, because all the fans and all the lights. It just got super hot.

Cindy: Right.

Susan: But that was …

Cindy: You were surrounded by a ring full of men. That’s got to get a bit hot.

Susan: Nobody was there.

Cindy: Okay.

Susan: It was just me.

Cindy: I was meaning the virtual room. Susan: It was a virtual room. Yeah, yeah. Cindy: Yes.

Susan: Totally true. But equipment set up was really easy. Actually injecting the videos and managing the chat and injecting the PowerPoints. What we would is, we would be live, then we would roll to something we’d prerecorded in a video studio. We went to a professional videographer’s studio. We green screened. We had our scripts. We used a teleprompted and Jim and I recorded the videos. We had each one of our teaching segments already done. That gave us time during the webinar to … They couldn’t see us, right? The camera was off us. We could guzzle water. Run to the bathroom. We could chat with each other on the back channel chats. Whatever. It just gave us a moment. We could read the chat roll and respond to people. That saved our bacon. I don’t know if they say that [inaudible 00:15:12].

Cindy: I had heard that one, yes.

Susan: It was very helpful. It took quite a bit for us to figuring out how to do video injections that didn’t knock people off the webinar during mobile. It took us a while to figure out how to do my Keynote injections wherever there was animation.

Cindy: Okay.

Susan: We figured that out too. You export the Keynote to an HTML file. Index dot HTML file and lay it in a separate window that you pull into Webinar Jam Studios. There are workarounds and luckily, there’s a great Facebook group for Webinar Jam Studio, which is awesome. I learned a lot. I shared a lot. There’s lot of techniques for coming to figure those things out. It’s Google Hangout. You can only do so much in Google Hangout.

We learned about how people are on the webinar from all over the world and somebody in India might be faster at getting the information than somebody in San Diego right next door in California. We just learned a lot from having all those moving parts and doing the webinars live with all those different insertions. We got fast at it about 18 hours in. We were like rolling the video and launching the Keynotes and chatting with people and you know, managing the whole thing. It definitely takes a lot of dry runs and practice.

Cindy: How did you manage the chat? Did you have some extra staff in there to just pull out questions to make sure stuff’s going to stay on topic as well.

Susan: [Saukie 00:16:51], one of our customer care team, managed our chat as did one of our customers who loved … He just loves … He just loves Personal Life Media and he just loves supporting us. He came on and whenever anybody was going to say … At the beginning we said, “Listen. We want you to chat, but you have to keep it very positive. There’s not going to be any negative comments on chat, because we … Literally we can kick you off, so please don’t make us do that.”

Someone wrote something and I guess they thought they were being funny, but it kind of was a dig at women and that was really great because Ross … He was like, “Hey, dude. Keeping it positive in here. Please … Maybe you were just trying to be funny. We get that, but it’s not funny to make fun of women and we’re all here to support each other. This is a really good workshop for men so let’s keep it really positive.”

The guy was like, “Sorry.” As long as you came out right up front and you were like, “This is how we’re going to roll, dudes. [inaudible 00:17:49] stuff. Of course, you can say whatever words you need to say, but it’s not negative.”

Then we also had a couple of other people from our team monitoring chats and Pinning questions so we could come back to them later. Yeah, you need support.

Cindy: Yeah. It sounds like you do. You had … You were talking about having a lot of people coming and promoting for you. Did you already have a base of affiliate partners? Is that correct?

Susan: I have about 150 affiliate partners and I went to the ones that were my top 20 buddies and I was like, “Hey, I don’t have any idea if I’m going to make you any money at all, because I’ve never done this before, but I could sure use some warm traffic to split test these hooks.” They were all like, “Totally going to do that for you. No problem at all.” Of course, any time they need me to, I hit them right back with traffic. I’m really lucky to have a very strong relationship with a lot of awesome affiliate partners.

Cindy: After you bundled it up, did you use it for evergreen content? Ongoing webinars or something like that. Are you still using that for affiliates or do you have … have you moved on to paid traffic? Or how are you getting … how are you benefiting with the content you created then? You’re still using it.

Susan: Here’s what I did: the first thing that I did was a I started with these three different workshops. I sent to all my affiliates traffic to it as well as my own traffic. Then we did the live events. We did one event on Wednesday. That was our first one and then we did an encore presentation on Friday which was an entirely new live event, because we got better the second time and we increased our conversions to probably about 25 or 30% every single time we went from one to the other, with the exception of the second series where we tried … We tried to push too hard. Our conversions went down.

Cindy: Okay.

Susan: Then we learned our lesson. By the third we got better again. We did two sets of each of the three, and then, after we got all the people signed up that we could to go into the webinars, the workshops, we realized that there were people who … That there were a lot of people who were going to watch the replay. Right? They signed up but they were never planning to come on live. They were always planning to come on the replay. They were able to see the replay of the event. The second event. We never did a replay of the first one. We did a replay of the second one, because that was always our better … Well, of the better two converting ones. We always did a replay of the better two converting ones. Better one of the two converting ones.

Cindy: Right.

Susan: Easy for me to say.

That got some of the people who actually would watch a replay. Then there were a lot of people for whom they were like, “Gee, a male multiple orgasm workshop sounds really interesting but I’m actually so incredibly busy I have no time to sit down and watch that.”

What we did was we took the workshop and we put it on a sales page and we … Because you get a YouTube video when you do a Webinar Jam. The output is a YouTube video, right? Then you can bring that YouTube video into Evergreen Webinar. EverWebinar and make it an Evergreen Webinar, but you get a YouTube video so we put that on a sales page with the offer below it. We took all the people that had registered, but not gone to a workshop and we sent them to this page and said, “Listen. On demand. Just watch it. Check it out.”

Then we did the same thing the following week, but we did highlights. For a lot of people, they didn’t want a big sales pitch, right?

Cindy: Right.

Susan: It was a three-hour presentation about why you should own Multi- Orgasmic Lover for Men. What we did was we did a highlight on the sales page. We said, “Go to 3 minutes and 27 seconds to see the knee breath technique. Go to 12 minutes and 10 seconds in to see da da da.” They could … We gave them a shuttle on the video so they could fast forward and see highlights. “Go here to see what the offer is and what the price point is and how you own it,” but right below it was actually the order form. They could go watch and buy.

That worked really well.

Then the following week, we took the entire workshop. We cut out all the sales. There was not one selling thing in there. No testimonies. Nothing. Just the content. Only the content from the workshop. All the prerecorded videos and one little setup. Then we put that on a page with the offer, but each time we did this, additional usage of the videos, we let people know that it was a workshop special offer that was ending on … it was like November 30th or something. November 3rd. Whatever. This offer’s going away. Every time they saw the updated versions of the content, they knew that offer’s gone. We pulled it down and we took it off the market. We haven’t had it on the market since then. Now we’re building and we have built six different funnels. Three evergreen workshops from the first one, plus three more funnels that are different. One’s audio. One’s a video. One’s another video. That are just different things that our partners can mail too and we’re doing a sales event with all our partners who want to mail to it.

Cindy: Okay.

Susan: That’s how we’re doing it now to make another workshop special offer or a special offer, 57% off Multi-Orgasmic Lover for Men ends on this date with a timer.

Cindy: Okay, so then there’s still this urgency and you’ve got to be there. That’s fantastic. All right. We have covered quite a bit of stuff here, but I’m wondering if you’ve got any last words of advice for our seven-figure furnace listeners.

Susan: Yes, if you are good on camera or comfortable in front of the camera, if you are an educator and like to teach people how to do things, and if you’re proud of your offer and are willing to ask people to place an order, everything else can be learned. Even those things can be learned.

Cindy: Like what you just said. You didn’t actually create the product. You found someone who developed something of really great quality and then you went ahead and asked for licensing for that. You don’t even need to create your own product. Obviously creating your own product, you’re going to end up with more cash in your pocket yourself, but yeah. Definitely a good way around it.

Susan: Yes. If that is something that you like to do. If you like to educate, if you like to use video, if you love your products and want people to buy them, then the webinar or workshop or online training or whatever you want to call it is a fabulous medium and a terrific alternative to the long-form sales letter or the VSL.

Cindy: That is awesome. Thank you so much for your time today, Susan. It’s been wonderful to get great insights into what it is that you got into. I appreciate your time today.

Susan: Thanks, Cindy. Thanks for letting me talk about something I love so much.

Cindy: Thanks, bye. Talk again with you soon. Bye!

During this episode number 5, Sean is going to discuss product positioning,

how to market webinars outside of the regular make money online niche, how to use the strategy for bigger businesses, including how he has worked this into company makeover, taking them from 7 figures and now into 8 figures. Welcome Sean, it’s fantastic to have you here.
Cindy: In this episode, number 5, I interview Sean Donahoe. Founder of ADD Marketing group. He has had over 20 years of experience helping businesses and entrepreneurs with over 100,000 clients all over the world.
Sean: It’s good to see you Cindy. How are you doing my dear?

Cindy: I’m doing fabulous. Today we’re going to talk a lot about webinars and we know that webinars work in internet marketing. We’ve had a lot of people on the show talking about how to sell software and that kind of thing, but can you tell me how a non-internet marketing business can use webinars? What is different there?

Sean: Well, when you’ve got any sort of product that you can sell digitally, certainly it works better than physical products, but if you’ve got anything you want to sell it’s a great format for product positioning, for gathering an audience around you. The way I equate is kind of like putting people in a town square and standing up there and being able to just broadcast your message to everyone that you’ve gathered there that is interested in what you have to say.

Unlike a lot of other forms of marketing, which is what I call solo- marketing because someone sees an ad and they go to your sales page, you’re not doing it in a group environment and I’m big on crowd dynamics. When people feel that that they are a part of a bigger group or are all there, they’re all feeding off each others energy and everything else it’s a completely different kettle of fish than just talking to one person who just happens to be on your sales page or reading your brochure offline or what have you because that’s just one person with their intent and everything else, but when you’re in a group and everyone’s feeding off the same energy, they’ve got all the same questions, the same desires you kind of get that mob mentality, that crowd mentality.

With webinars it’s just absolutely fantastic because now you’ve got this one entity. It’s all of these people have come together and they’re like one person that you’re talking directly to in so many levels. You can control the message. You can read the room, so to speak, and everyone there. You can see where the sentiment of your message is either hitting the mark or missing the mark and you can modify on the floor. You don’t get a chance to do that because it’s just a sales page because it’s not dynamic. I love that dynamic interaction because it really gives you a pulse of what you’re saying and what you’re trying to communicate to help these people get to where they need to be.

Cindy: That’s great. I know that when you’re using a webinar software most people can’t see how many people are in the room. As the presenter you can see if there’s three people in the room or if you’ve packed it at a thousand. Do you have any tricks on letting people know that there’s other people in the room? How do you build up that kind of excitement.

Sean: That’s a great thing. What I always do at the beginning is I always do a role call. This lets everyone in the room know there’s lots of people in here. What I’ll do is I’ll say, “Hey, before we get started here we like to make these sessions interactive because you help shape the content.” The reason I do that is obviously to get people engaged. I’ll say, We’ll do a role call. Tell us your name, say “hi”, and where you’re from.” We’ll do that right at the beginning before anything else. As I’m reading the scroll I’ll call out individual names and places. If a I know a place or I’ve got some connection, say, “I’m from Texas, I’m just up the road, great.””From Vegas, yep there every month.” Something like that.

I’m bringing all these people together. First of all you connect them, the individuals you call out to the session. If you’ve got 100’s or 1000s of people, you’re going to say, “All this is going so fast I can only pick out a few because it’s going so fast because they’re so many people here tonight.” You always elude to that and then the coping is as you’re going through a webinar … I always like to call out a question that catches my eye.

I have multiple monitors. This is actually a 6 monitor rig. I can’t turn the camera around. If you’ve ever seen the movie “Small Fish” this is my small rig. My big rig is in my main office. This is my little [inaudible 00:04:41] studio. I have it upper multiple monitors. I can see what my staff are doing on one side and see the interactions there. I can also see the questions as I’m presenting. Obviously I don’t do a webcam while I’m doing a webinar. Sometimes I will.

Actually that’s something we might talk about later on. I can read off questions and I can call out what people say. When they see me do that or my team passes me a question there seeing that, “Oh there’s other people there asking the same kind of connective questions I would be as a customer.” It gives that kind of dynamism. Now there are pieces of software out there that will actually create … You can see the chat log. Webinar Gem which is one of the tools. Webinar Gem stadium. You can have a live chat. Everybody can see each other as they’re asking questions. Maybe not the full attendee count. There are other ones that are also fake which really not for.

They have the fake chat rooms and you can see that there’s all these virtual people in there. It’s all BS, I don’t like that. I don’t recommend that. That’s one thing with any webinar be-it in the IM space where a lot of people know me from the IM space. I actually do 90% of my business outside of IM. Be genuine. In IM absolutely. Outside of IM be genuine and everything will work out so much better for the long term. Product positioning successfully is nothing if you aren’t authentic in the delivery of it.

See so many people do scammy, scarcity tactics. Fake scarcity this and fake that. Be upfront with your customers.

Cindy: There’s no way to build an actual long term business is there? People respond to people. If you plan to be here 12 months from now still doing [inaudible 00:06:31]. You can’t actually get away with it anymore. It’s the Internet.

Sean: It’s not a way to business. I’ve built my business in all these different niches on them. I run many, many corporations in different interests. I’ve got my fingers in so many pies. I’ve built my name on integrity. If you don’t have integrity in this business you’re just shooting yourself in the foot. It’s going to come down. It doesn’t matter what kind of empire you create. If you don’t have the right solid foundation. It’s going to crumble.

Cindy: Absolutely.

Sean: Go with the right foot forward.

Cindy: Our listeners, if there’s people who are listening in and they have a digital product. It could just be in any niche, I guess. Maybe they’re not online but they’d like to do something online. Is there any kind of structure that you can recommend that they use when they’re actually building their pitch that would be different from how we doing things? Is it pretty much the same?

You have the introduction. You have the training. Some kind of expressing teaching kind of thing. Then you have demonstration of a software or the product it is that you’re trying to sell. That kind of flow. Do you do things a little bit differently?

Sean: That’s a great question. In IM specifically, a lot of people are trained to respond to webinars and so [inaudible 00:08:08]. Right now in IM webinars are a struggle for most people. All they do is pitch. It’s a pitch right from the start. They know they’re being pitched. People are coming on there, they’re already jaded. What we do is completely different.

We throw that model right out the window. It’s very simple model. We tell them what we’re going to teach them. We’re going to tell them when its going to happen. Why it’s important? Then we teach them one core strategy. That is piece of a much larger puzzle. For example, in the finance world, we deal with home net-worth individuals with one of the companies I consult with. This other one that’s in the real estate business. Again, high net worth individuals. Now when you’re dealing with … We’re talking about $5,000 dollar price points, okay?

We’re not dealing with small turkeys here. Now the thing here is that your customers have a reasonable expectation of why are they here right now? Now Conica Rose a very good copywriter friend of both of ours, he has four questions that I absolutely love. It’s “Why me?” “Why you?” “Why this?” “Why now?” You’ve got to answer his four questions. Why me? From the customers standpoint, “Why should care about what you have to say?” “How is it going to help me?”

We’re not altruistic creatures. We’re very self centered. We want to know why we’re investing our time which is the same as money to busy people. “Why am I investing my time with you right now?” “What is in it for me?” “Are you gonna solve my problem?” Now for example, with a finance side we’re talking with people in the stock market who have bank accounts and they’ve blown them up, you know 50,000, 100,000 dollar accounts.

That has evaporated because they traded that. What we’re trying to do is show them how to get from where they are and the problems they’re having right now all the way up to being successful trader. Now we can only take them so far in 19 minutes. My always position, what we’re training them is this is starting point. We can only go so far in this and at the end I’m going to tell you how we can continue this.

What we’re doing is we’re already seeding the fact that there’s going to be something at the end. We ask them permission. “Is it okay if we show you how to go beyond what we teach you here?” That already seeds everything that we’re going to talk about at the end. We say, “Hey, you know if we deliver amazing value and right now is it okay if we show you how we can continue this outside of this presentation?” Everyone’s going to say, “Yes.”

Now here’s the next thing. You’ve got to deliver on that expectation. If people are coming, it doesn’t matter what price point you want. Whether you’re $47 dollars, $497 dollars, $4,997 dollars. Whatever your spectrum is, you’ve got to set that expectation and over deliver. If you over deliver on value, what you connect it to, what your pictures going to be for whatever you’re doing, then you’re going to have a lot more engagement all the way through. You’re going to draw people all the way through to the very, very end. They’re going to stick to that transition between your content and when you start actually telling them about the product, solution, or service that you guys are offering.

We structure it as a brief introduction, no more than 5 minutes. We tell the what they’re going to learn, why it’s important, we tell them exactly when it’s going to happen, we peer into their immediate needs. You’ve got to understand your customer all the way down the line. We do about 75 – 80% content Only 15% is actually pitch. For example, if you imagine line between here and here. This is where they’re starting. This is where they want to be. We’re taking them on the first step which is the biggest hurdle for most people.

We take some really great content. We tell them how to do it. It’s a great leap forward to them. They’ve got to have an “Ah ha” moment. If you give them that, they really want to get all the rest that you have to show them. This is what makes transitioning and pitching your product so easy if you say,”Hey this is just small piece of a much bigger pie.” “We’ve only got so much time to show you here, this piece.” “This is already going to make you light years ahead of everyone else.” “We’ve got to much more we want to show you which is why I want to tell you about “X”.

It’s a great transition method because you’re giving them step one out of say five steps of your overall course. The biggest “ah ha”, the biggest eye opener. You’re also giving them a sneak peak at the value that you’re providing to them and what you will provide them if they come with you as part of this kind of now tribe that you’re creating to show them exactly what you do.

Cindy: Now that’s fantastic. You sell to them on the first webinar? Do you have a series of webinars? Do you just basically dive straight in?

Sean: We strike while the iron is hot. Because of this transitional method that we use from going from here to there, we know we want to keep them on that path so what we’ll do we’ll actually say, “You can jump right now.” Now by this time and I was explaining this in the mastermind recently which Cindy was at as well.

We were showing an 8 figure what we call a “Lead float”. Okay a Lead float is a way you take a lead through a series of events and you connect with them in a certain way and you drive them through to a desired course position and course of action. [inaudible 00:14:10] We have a phone number. In the replay, if they don’t buy on the webinar, we’ll actually call them up and make sure everything was cool. The got to see the replay. We’ll follow up with them in a different ways and connect personally with the user.

Again, we’re dealing with high net-worth clients. That personal connection is great because you want to make sure that they’re being treated with first class service. That’s what we want to offer to our clients. The company’s that I consult with want to offer to their clients. This is first class hand holding service. Red carpet treatment all the way down the line. If they have any questions, any problems, anything they said, “You know I was okay with that but I wasn’t sure about this one part.” That’s the part that maybe we follow up with questions and that’s great. We do is actually do as many sales in that process as we do live on the session.

What else? We’ve got replays and everything else so that really does help. We actually do make the pitch right on that webinar. We also do that follow up and the postal follow up to engage any customers that have any questions. We’re always going to have a certain amount of first responders so to speak that jump right in.

You’re going to have those that kind of sitting on the fence that might not commit right then but might afterwards and keep on thinking.

Or those that, “Kind of, I get it, I’m just not quite there.” Again, the vast majority of those people are going to be that latter group. You want to follow up with them as much as possible and say, “Hey, did you have any questions?” “Was it cool?” “Was there a part that you didn’t get?” “Was there anything that was stopping you moving forward?” You know, because obviously they come to your webinar or training because they’ve got a problem and you’ve tried to provide a solution to that big problem. That’s what’s attracted them there in the first place. What’s the stumbling block for them? “How can we help you passed it to movie forward to solve your problem?

To me that’s good customer service. You’re doing your customer’s a disservice if you are not following up with them in a personal way to help them solve what they’ve got in their lives.

Cindy: Right, how do you get registrations in the first place? Is this old friend, client associated with the business already and just trying to take them to the next level? Are you doing outside advertising to get leads? How are you getting people? How are you filling your webinars?

Sean: Well, we already have internal lists in a lot of the companies that I consult with. With us, with what we do we have internal lists already but yes media buys, social media, pay per click advertising, video ads. Basically we always want or looking to expand our reach because it’s so many people.

A lot of people talk about saturation. “Oh this market’s over saturated.” “Oh, this market’s over saturated.” “Oh you can’t get in the dating niche or the health niche because it’s over saturated.” BS. Let’s put it politically correct in the sense [inaudible 00:17:16] so there’s no more BS. It’s absolute BS because here’s the thing, if you think about this guys, Facebook. If you just drove traffic to your offers with Facebook. That’s 1.5 billion active users on Facebook.

There’s more on different platforms, Twitter, LinkedIn. If you go on business to business. LinkedIn is the one to work with. You’ve got Snap Chat, Instagram, obviously it depends on your market. Me primarily Facebook is it. We also do video ads. We also do Google AdWords and stuff like that. Facebook is our primary source of traffic. 1.5 billion okay guys. You are able to get a decent slice of that with your ad budget. There’s no such thing as a traffic problem.

We lead people into either a case study or a free download or direct registration to a webinar where we’re going to teach them X. One of the really cool things hat we do with webinar registration is we do a video ad. We tell them, “Hey, this is what we’ve got something very cool we wanted to show them.” “It’s going to give this, this.” You don’t resell the content. You pre sell the click. You want to tell them exactly what they’re going to get, how they’re going to get it and why they should click to go to your sign up page.

Product positioning is making sure that you aren’t only focused on selling the content. Sell the click. If you do that in the video ads to get direct registrations. What you’re doing is … I would do something like this. “Right now I’ll tell you exactly what you’re going to get, why I want to show you it, why it’s so important and why it’s different from everyone else.” Always want to differentiate yourself from the rest of the herd. We’re actually writing a book right now called “Rebel Trader” and we’re positioning ourselves for one of our corporations that we’re starting up right now as Khachaturian, in other words completely anti-establishment of the way everyone else does it.

Everyone else sucks. Okay, we actually really present ourselves and position ourselves as the Khachaturian rebels. Ignore everyone else. This is what you need to know. This is why everyone else is failing and you don’t have to. We’ll engage like this now again, when you’re dealing with social media wise you can see my face. You can see my eyes. You can see the passion I’m talking about whatever I’m talking about. Which is really great for engagement. People react to faces. We’re psychological programmed to … If you go over a page in social media, test yourself and see how many faces with the eyes facing straight forward that you’re engaged with.

That’s what people connect with. That’s what’s going to get your eye balls on your ads. When you’re doing a video ad and everything else. You’re telling people, “Hey turn up your speakers and everything else important.” You’re getting many people to click. That is fantastic engagement. You’re already training them to engage with you personally as a personality as well as the message you’re trying to put across. That really, really helps with engagement for your then sign up page and then you can get your people in.

A giveaway, case study like I said or anything else that’s going to also start the process. The essention process from 0 to where they want to be. Maybe the first little step is the cheat sheet or a list or a short cut or something like that. You give them that when they sign up for the webinar. Say, “Hey this is how you download.” “We’re actually doing this training, sign up now, we’ll give you this case study right now.” “Then you can join us live as we go through this case study and show you how we did it step by step.”

Again, you’re taking them on that accentuation path where they want to be by giving them those first bread crumbs of saying, “Ah, cool, hey, this is what I needed.” “Perfect.”

Cindy: Right, yeah and then you have just sequences afterwards. You’re mentioning that you do follow ups. How many times do you follow up with them after you do a webinar?

Sean: Good question. 7 days. We have retargeting campaigns for those that attended or those that registered. Those that attended. Those that signed up. We have an onboarding process for those that signed up. We have onboarding process and follow up for those that registered but didn’t attend. We give them multiple opportunities to see a replay. Those that signed up and didn’t attend, we give them a slightly different twist. We might have a second chance live.

What we do is we deal a lot with altered webinars as well. We prefer live but obviously we automate like crazy. We have altered webinars that start every half hour or stuff like that. Obviously they’re not live. My company’s can’t be in 15 places at one. We don’t have Delorians and travel at 88 back to the future style. We use a lot of automation and the cool thing that, “Hey if you miss this one, there’s another one in X number of hours.” “Is that going to be more convenient? We’ll ask them, “Yes, no.” Micro-commitment questions or we’ll just say, “Hey, here’s the replay, you miss it, you missed a live one, but don’t miss this, it’s going to be essential when you see it.”

Again, we do those follow up thing with a phone call. Our priority list is those that attended but didn’t buy. We also run through that. We’ll go those who registered but didn’t attend. We might also follow up with them on the phone if we have the capacity to do that. Yeah, between me targeting, mail campaigns and everything else we might even have video ads as well but going for those that registered but didn’t attend or anything else and say, “Hey, you know wanted to make sure everything was cool.” “Saw that you missed the live video.” “Click on the link below, you can actually watch a live replay.”

“Right now we want to make sure that you have a chance to see it.” Engage with that. Especially with video stuff. They’re like, “How did he know?” Beauty of doing Internet targeting. Again, it feels like a personal message. If I said to you, “Hey, … I won’t insert your name here but you know so … “Hey glad I caught you.” “I noticed that you didn’t attend our webinar.” “Wanted to make sure everything was cool.” “Life happens.” “No problem.” “What we’ve done is we put a little link down here below.” “You can watch a live replay.” “We want to make sure you had a chance to catch what this awesome training.” “Click on that link right now and I’ll see you in the webinar.”

Simple as it gets. That one thing is 20 seconds, if that. Gives them enough “Hey, click that link.” “Join us on the webinar.” “You can watch a replay at your leisure.” “Hey, you know that’s cool.” People are very much engaged with that. You can see an amazing pick up in first of all attendees and obviously sales a long run. You’re bringing all those people back. You’re lubing back.

In webinars its usually a good conversion is 10% percent which means 90% percent of the people who registered didn’t say, “Yes.” They said, “No or not right now.” I wanted the people who say, “Not right now” because they didn’t have a chance. Life happens and everything else. We try and bring them back in so they have a second chance or a third chance or however long. For 7 days we will be following up and striking while the iron’s hot.

We found that after 7 days, that’s pretty much it. They’re not there. Hey, that doesn’t matter because we’ll do another webinar with a slightly different focus and we’ll introduce that after 7 days. One of the things that people do … and I’m going just keep on talking because ideas and stuff comes to me.

Cindy: That’s great.

Sean: This is where the button turns on. The hamsters start churning and all the [inaudible 00:25:36] comes out.

Cindy: Well you’ve got some good stuff. I’m sure I’ll listen with a bright mind if you keep bring it.

Sean: Think about the fitness niche. You’ve got people who are like middle aged men, young men, middle aged women, very young women who want to be fit. They all have different focuses, different needs. When you can target different messages to different demographics, as the same with the problems. Are you eating to be healthy? You eating to lose weight? Are you eating because you want to be a marathon runner? There’s different kinds of driving emotions in all of that.

You can target different things to different people’s needs. In the finance space, maybe people coming from the Forex industry or the Binary option and they want to learn how to really trade US equities markets. People who are looking say in the real estate industry looking to flipping houses or tax liens. They want to kind of learn how to get into real estate development. You’ve got different focuses. You can create different ways in to that central message. So that if hey, If that one didn’t connect with them, maybe this one will

This is one now connects better with them. Drawing them to the same process. Now you’re connecting more with their primary driver. That works very well as well. There’s many, many, many different angles to bring all the people down into this.

Yeah, a follow up is essential. You’ve got to follow up. You’ve got to lead them in. You’ve got to connect from here to here. You want them in the middle. That’s perfect and then they can be on that accentuation part as I mentioned.

Cindy: You mentioned briefly about Evergreen and prerecorded webinars. What if we go back to that just really quickly. We’re going to have to wrap this up pretty soon. If you’re doing webinars and their automated every half an hour do people assume that it’s going to be automated? They must know. How do get around making it still be personable without it looking artificial? How do you make an automated webinar actually still do the benefit of connecting with them as much as possible or not actually?

Sean: Well, there’s a couple of cool ways you can do this. Now I mentioned in the beginning about being genuine all the way through. We tell them that this is prerecorded training, we’re right up front. “This is a prerecorded training, you have an opportunity to be here and we actually have coaches and people here that can answer any questions you have as we go through this.” Which we do.

Now the cool thing here is if anyone test that and they get an instant reply back from someone who’s on the call, great. Or you just don’t disclose it at all and let people make assumptions. That’s a grey area. I’m not really keen on that. If you don’t disclose that it’s live and you don’t disclose that it’s not live but you say,”Hey our people are standing by here if you’ve got any questions at all, you’ve got a live coach right now. You can ask any questions. Working in the background here. You can do it that way if you want to.

I prefer to say, “Hey we got some great training here.” Just go right through and say, “You know this is a training we do all the time.” Which is another kind of angle you could say that. Say, “Hey this is a training we do all the time.” “We’d love you to be on this.” ‘”This is what you’re going to get out of it.” “We’ve got people standing by if you’ve got any questions.” “You’ll see the chat box below.”I got lots and lots of people here so we got lots to get through, so let’s get started.”

You’re eluding to the fact or what have you. You can just come out and say, “That this is a training we do all the time.” In the IM world, again people are very wise to automated webinars and everything else. Outside of IM world, not so much.

Cindy: Okay.

Sean: If you don’t want to do that per say, and go that route, you could do a training once or twice a week. You’ll end up sounded stale. I’ve got a lot of people who do the same training and they do it live like twice a week. They start getting like this.

Cindy: It would be exhausting. Yes. It’s like when you go to Universal Studio’s and it’s that guy who’s like taking …

Sean: Oh my God, yes!

Cindy: You know he’s going to do this every half an hour [inaudible 00:30:01]

Sean: This is the guy in Universal Studio’s going on those trolleys, he want to jump into the Jaws. “Eat me now!” “Eat me.”

Cindy: Right.

Sean: I feel bad for those guys.

Cindy: Do you have any last minute advice for our [inaudible 00:30:18] listeners?

Sean: Yeah don’t be afraid to do webinars. Even if you suck at it at first, which I did, do it. The more you practice, the better you get.

Webinars are one of the greatest ways to position your business, to give you authority, to put you way ahead of everyone else, especially outside of IM. Don’t be afraid to do it. Don’t be afraid of screwing it up. Just do it. You’ll get better and better with practice. You’ll figure out how to do things. How not to do things. Just like I did. My first webinar, I didn’t sell a dime.

Unfortunately most people in the IM world and non IM world would give up right there. Not me. Not smart people. Not you. Go for it. Practice. Get better. Develop those webinar skills and you will unleash an amazing profit stream for any business you’re in.

Cindy: That is awesome, thank you so much for those awesome tips and hints and everything that you’ve shared today Sean. Thanks for joining us here today.

Sean: My absolute pleasure. Have a good day.

Cindy: Take care man. Bye.

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