Cindy: In this episode number 2 I interview Rich Wilens who has hosted over 400 different webinars for JVZoo’s sister company Webinar Swaps. Currently he runs JVZoo’s webinar division and has created in-depth training programs specifically about webinars including ones that have been released in March 2006, called “[inaudible 00:00:20] your Webinars.” He has over 48 years experience doing sales presentation from stage starting in 1976 working and learning from the great sales trainer Tom Hopkins and a whole bunch of others including E. Brian Roads. Now, he’s adapted his sales training for the 21st century and now the internet’s web seminar and conference explosion. Rich is here to share about what he’s working on now, how to get massive engagement for your webinars, how to close the sale, and how to craft the ideal sales webinar. Rich, thank you so much for joining us.
Rich: Well, it’s absolutely my pleasure. Made me sound like, since 1976 do you know how many years that is? That many years. I just want to let you know, Cindy, 62 is the new 40.
Cindy: (laughs) If this makes you feel any better I was born in ’76. (laughs)
Rich: Oh thanks.
Rich: Much better.
Cindy: I was like a tiny baby.
Rich: I got ya. Okay. What do you want to talk about tonight?
Cindy: I know that you’ve been doing this for a while, obviously, ’76. I’m sure you’ve seen a whole bunch of changes and that transition from going from selling in different methods and then to bringing it over to webinars. Let’s dive in here and just see, what do you think is working now? How do you see webinars? Do you think webinars are going to be around for a while still? Can you see any changes coming? What do you think?
Rich: You know, changes are always inevitable. A webinar is nothing more than a web seminar. A web seminar is nothing more a seminar that has been recorded. A seminar is nothing more than standing on stage and presenting a product to an audience that people want and have an interest in you and your product that want to buy that will help solve a problem or make your life better. Have things changed? No, it started I believe exactly from it’s roots from standing on the stage and selling a product. All we are doing is in the year 2016, we found a new way to present our product to the masses. In order to present the product to the masses you had to adapt accept and approve the new technology which will bring your product to the, and I mean this, millions upon millions of people, new people, that you wouldn’t have a chance in doing it the old way. Have webinars changed? Yes, I don’t believe we should use the word webinar anymore because when people think webinar they think automatically, “oh, it is going to be a pitch fest. I am going to come in learn a little bit of fluff, next thing I know they are asking me for $995 or 3 payments of $397.”
Rich: No, what people want is they want to be entertained and informed. They want to spend an hour with you because believe it or not, 99% of the people who show up for webinars want to be entertained because they crave the information they need in order to find the next big thing. The next thing that’s going to help them out of their rut. Most of the time, the attendees that you have are just people who are information gatherers. Now, there is nothing wrong with that because everybody who attends your webinars, you have to change your thinking, [inaudible 00:03:41]. You’ve got to change your mind [inaudible 00:03:44] are all prospects. What you have to do is you have to info-tain them. You have to give them a reason to like you and buy from you. You have to do it in a structure in order to keep your attendees attention. The answer to your question is, the long way around, have webinars changed? Yes, they are now workshops and they’ve changed from [inaudible 00:04:10] in front of an audience to looking at your computer, your television set, or your monitor and inviting them into your living room.
Cindy: Yeah, right, exactly. You make a really good point there about changing even just changing it to workshops or, I know some people say live training sessions, or anything like that and moving away from the actual word webinar. Gets a lot more people on your webinar.
Rich: It’s a negative connotation. We used to use the term ‘red’ as a negative connotation because red mean stop, green meant go. If you always used a highlighter, you would use green because green is a power color. The term pitch, I used to believe, this was in 1976, pitch was a negative connotation. I’m not trying to pitch you something, “oh are you trying to pitch me something?” No, I’m trying to present the information you need to make the right decision. That’s what you have to do in today’s webinars.
Cindy: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yup. Let’s go and talk a little bit more about that. How do you get a lot of people in? I know you’re saying that there are literally millions out there of people. We are going to be talking quite a lot now about dealing with selling products to business owners to people who are working from home, kind of like the make money from home sort of niche, correct? That’s your area of expertise here or do you do more niche stuff?
Rich: My niche is anybody who can present a product with a webinar.
Rich: I basically have everybody in my prospect list because everybody needs product presentation, even if you are selling a service.
Cindy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rich: A product, if you are selling information, or you’re selling physical products everybody likes a face. Whose the guy that does the shamwow? I love that guy, and Billy Mayes, now he’s gone. As goofy as he is, you know, rather than the other two clowns who take care of everything in the background. Everybody loves to have a face and everybody wants to have a connection. That’s why I say that everybody who’s attending your webinar is a prospect. Try to put yourself on a 1-on-1 with everybody who is on this web seminar because they came here for one reason, they came there to see you.
Cindy: Right. Once you get these people onto the webinar, do you have any tricks for actually leading them towards conversions? Towards the sale? Maybe you could share some of of those tricks with those listeners.
Rich: Sure, first of all, I don’t use the term ‘tricks,’ I think tricks is also a negative connotation. Let me share with you, a lot of people think tricks or hacks or any of those things, to me, I always think I’m going to hack into something so I’m not really quite doing something above board.
Cindy: It sounds dishonest.
Rich: What I teach and what I share with people is how… exactly… How to be upfront with somebody because people don’t care how much they know until they know how much you care. Remember you’re dealing with a prospect. If you just take the term, ‘Oh, he’s just an opt-in,’ well, that’s all he is, he’s an opt-in. But if you take the thinking that he is a person who is going to give you money for a product or a service they are going to use, they are going to remember you and they are going to buy from you again. Who would you rather buy from? Somebody who is new or something that you already bought before that’s been consistent like yourself with your product. People buy from you because they buy Cindy, they don’t necessarily buy the product. How many people do you know bought your product that still have it in their cart and haven’t used it just because they bought from you.
This is where webinars are going. It’s kind of like a 1-on-1. One of the reasons why I say it’s a 1-on-1 because people need to change their thinking. To give you an example, let’s say you fill up a go to [inaudible 00:08:16] situation right now there are other products out there that are better than go-to meetings. But, go-to meeting and go-to webinar are very reliable. They only let you get 1,000 people but every attendee doesn’t know there is 1,000 people on. It is only because you tell them. The attendee only logged in because of you. Now, if you take one person that is on this web seminar and you start talking to them 1-on-1, do you know that all 1,000 people will believe that you are talking to them? Oh my god, just think if you mention people’s names, they go crazy. Everybody likes to be acknowledged. One of the things that I share with people in today’s webinars is creating that 1-on-1 and it will convert to everybody there. Everybody will feel a piece about you. They’ll like you and once they like you, they will buy from you.
Cindy: Exactly. Yeah. That sort of leads them towards the sale, because you’re not pushing them into something. You’re pushing them because they have… you don’t even have to push them because they are there to see you and you’ve got something to share with them.
Cindy: That kind of helps towards the conversions correct?
Rich: That’s another thing too. I don’t push anybody into anything. There’s three reasons why people done buy. I’ve always said this and these are the basics, I’ll tell you a quick story. Have you heard of a guy called Grant Cardone?
Cindy: Yes. I had the privilege of interviewing him recently, he’s an amazing guy.
Rich: Well, I’ll have you know he attended two of my workshops in 1984 and ’85 in southern California and a lot of the stuff that he has in his material are all materials that he has taken and he has learned from all the other sales trainers that came before him. Nothing Grant Cardone says is new except the way he presents it. They way he presents it is fabulous. He’s taken basically what I did and was in a position that he came to see me at the whole different level and he did exactly what he did was 10x his life and the way he does business. Which is a model for me because it’s like a round table, a round circle, it came back. He came my workshop, I bought his books, now I’m 10x-ing the webinars giving people 10 solid reasons, 10x why their webinar can convert and close rather than what they’ve already been doing. Thank you Grant Cardone for that.
When were talking about webinars and what’s happening that’s new. First of all, I can tell you right now if you have a webinar right now, anybody out there who is listening, if you are having a webinar right now, the firs problem is it’s too long, that’s it. People’s attention span, Cindy, is 51 minutes, that’s it. Th only reason they keep people on there an extra hour is just to grind out that last sale. It’s kind of like stretching out the months for a car salesman, trying to make that last car roll out the door. It’s just not going to happen. At the end of 51 minutes, you’re done. It’s time for you to have that buy button out there where people could have already purchased the product or it’s time to say, “Hey, look, I’m here, you’re here, the product is here.” We are talking about the three reasons why people don’t buy me, the machine, or money. It’s never me because people love me, I’m loved. That’s because I razzle dazzle them.
Jazz hands. The other reason is the product. There I no reason this product shouldn’t be product of the day on JVZoo and Warrior Form if Mike Lans was smart, that’s a whole other thing. I say that lovingly Mike. Make it product of the day because it’s a great product and money has never been an issue. It’s usually a $27 investment of you and your time in order to confirm a claim that somebody is making of a product that you’re purchasing that’s going to help eliminate a problem and a pain for you. All of those things create the sale, you create that during the webinar, they love me, they love my product, money has never been a problem, there is no reason that you cannot convert everybody.
Now, back from la-la land. Nobody is going to convert everybody. These guys that say, “I’ve converted 80% and 70%,” please. The only thing that they are fooling is themselves. They have sent their own list and their own list loves them and they had 10 people show up and 8 of them bought. Hey, I closed 80%. I mean, numbers can be construed into everything. Here is the basic numbers that can control your closing ratio, if you can learn these and use these and you improve your closure rating. If people are listening to the webinar at the time when you are closing them 50, if you close 20%, that is 10 people. If you take the people who are listening to me at the closing, which is 50, which would be 20% of 10 or the total attendees which was 100 and you sold 10, that’s 10% so now you know you closed 10%. You take that 10%, you figure out how much profit that you want to make in the next webinar and you multiply that by the attendees. You want to sell 100 piece, you need 1,000 people on the webinar.
With that being said, taking into account that there is 1,000 people on the webinar now that you have analyzed that doing what you are doing now you’re selling 10%, 10x your webinar up and do something different and you’ll increase that by 5%. Well, how much will 5 sales or 50 sales increase your bottom line? In order to do that, you need to shorten up your webinars to around 60 minutes or less that’s where we get into the 52 one minutes of people’s attention span.
To give just a little recap of what we were chatting about you’ve got structured webinar that you have kept under an hour. You’ve kept people under that 51 minute mark right around 45 you’re giving them a buy button because you have just introduced a product to them and that product is great product. It is one that they all need to solve a problem, it was present by you either the creator or the owner of that product because people love you, and the money has never been an issue. What is the reason not to take advantage of this now? Paypal now offers a 30 day guarantee, so it doesn’t matter. There are no scams in this business anymore. You’ve got 30 days and you can say, “I don’t want it Paypal.” You either use it or you don’t. Not that many people just want to scam a free product? If the do, god bless them. Most of the time, you know you can get your money back at the end of the 30 days. There is no reason why everybody shouldn’t buy that product and that is the attitude you have to take. That’s where you use the different techniques within that hour in order to close more sales.
Cindy: Right. In this 45 minutes that you’ve got, how do you keep them engaged? Do you have anything that you an share with these guys about how to keep people wanting to stay on for that whole time that you want them to tune in and to actually pay attention to what you’ve got going on?
Rich: I do and I am going to give you 2 secrets right now that I use in every webinar that I use that increases my sales by at least 2 to 5 sales per sale. When I first get on the webinar I instruct people, “Okay, now for those of you who either cannot stay the whole hour or who want want to stay the whole hour but they need a little bit more information like their problem solved. Go ahead, my assistant is working the question box, go ahead and leave your phone number and I will get back to you. Because, if it is going to take more… Here is what is going to happen, I am going to solve a lot of problems in an hour, but if you have more questions, just go ahead and leave them now. Jake, go ahead and take their numbers. Is everybody leaving their phone numbers?” Just by saying that I always get 10-15 numbers of people who want to talk to me. Well, there is 10-15 opportunities to seel my product.
Cindy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rich: By using that, plus it is another chance to sell other products that I have down the road. Now, to engage people in the audience, let’s go back to what I was talking about a little earlier with go-to meeting, go-to webinar, they only carry 1,000 people, so you have 1,000 people max and we are not going to a concert, we are not going to a holiday in where there is 200 people listening to the guy telling about real estate and flipping the product and taking his course, we are talking about one person signing up. They don’t know whether it’s live or whether it is recorded. Now, I have two opinions on that, we will talk about that if we have time in a minute. They don’t know if there is 1,000 people there, they only know that one person is there so, how do you want to engage people? Here is what you do, here is another secret that I share with people who have products.
Everybody knows the reasons that people use not to buy a product. For example, Cindy, if you are going to buy a car, “Well, I just want to think about it.” “Well, I’m not buying today. I have to ask my wife or husband.” “The price is too high.” “What’s wrong with this car? Well, I read this. I can get it for that.” These are all objections that you know people are going to ask when it comes time for them to buy the product when you are asking for their sale. What I do, is I get those objections out of the way. I ask those questions myself. “Well, Cindy is on the line and Cindy, Mary, and Jeffery, Jeremy from Buluxy and EBR from Orlando, he’s asking the same thing and that’s good folks and I’m sure there is a lot of you out there with this question in mind. He’s saying that he has to ask his wife or husband. I understand that, you know, I got one of those at home too but, what if she said yes. What would you do? Yeah, I would buy it too. Go ahead, come on, click it. You got 30 days, what the heck.”
That kind of thing. Right then and there it breaks the ice. That’s a little technique that I use, I overcome the objection before there is an objection.
Cindy: I want to continue talking a little bit about what you are talking about with recorded webinars. I want to know what do you think your opinion live vs. replay is there a place for both? Do you prefer one over the other? Do you have anything you can share on those?
Rich: I do, funny you should mention. I have an opinion. I do believe that live is better because you can interact with people live and people
want that live connection, on the other hand people don’t always have time. If they have a recorded webinar, these webinars can be accessed at any time. It could be an instant recorded webinar, it could be a 30 minute recorded webinar, or 45 minute recorded webinar, the could have it in a day or 2, you know the way you can schedule it. Now, I have an opinion on some of the other… I’m not crazy about go-to, I mean I go-to but google plus., I’m not stable with that concept but there are some programs out there that do offer a webinar type program similar to go to but not necessarily affordable such as on-TV and JVZoo and probably, you shouldn’t say that it is creating a [inaudible 00:19:33] platform. JVZoo webinars are where they are going to be offering… well I cannot really say that either.
You know what, I just had a filter. Cindy: Right.
Rich: EBR would be so proud of me. Anyway, that is what is happening, we are having a recorded webinar at any time is awesome as well because that’s when you have to look at as an opt-in. That’s how you generate traffic to your site. It is just like an opt-in page where you are selling information, whether you are the WSO on warrior plus the product of the day. It is basically doing the segment of sales page to drive traffic, you buy an opt-in. Now you can buy realistic traffic or you can buy shoot traffic. You could buy .0001 cent, you know, the Facebook clicks that you get. Which is somebody in Nigeria that is not going to have any money. Or, you’ll have to excuse me, my nose itches, that means it is going to rain. I was riding my bike earlier. Or, you can spend something realistic, like give yourself $1 a click.
Rule of thumb that I do when people want to drive traffic. How much are you going to make for one sale? Let’s say it is a 197 product, and so you are going to make $100 take that $100 buy 100 clicks. If you’re getting 10% out of 100 clicks if 50% of them show up and you’re doing 20% that is 10 sales. All you have yo do is make one sale back from that money that you sent and all least you know you’re buying that click. Or you direct it to any niche, any click at the groups if you want to work Facebook. Do Facebook groups, let people know there. Bust your way in, what is the worst thing they can tell you? Oh, we don’t want that SPAM on our… okay, sorry.
Cindy: Yeah it’s…
Rich: Well, I didn’t mean to do that, I won’t do it again. Okay, well Rich we know who you are so… Yeah thanks you know where I live, oh okay.
Cindy: It’s basically making sure… you need to know that what you’re selling is going to convert though. Otherwise, you will be sending traffic to something that’s not actually going to end up making money and then you lose money.
Rich: Exactly, like investing in anything else. You have to get to a niche or a set of people that want what you have to offer. What you have to offer is a web seminar or workshop which sounds cheesy as hell, but that’s what people want to hear. They get that webinar stuff, “oh, webinar. They are going to try to sell me something.” I tell people right up front the webinar, “Hey, at the end of this we are going to sell you something. We are going to try to. We are not going to sell you something. You’re either sold or sold yourself. You either want it or you don’t. If you don’t want to hang out now for 45 minutes you might as well leave because all you will be doing is listening going ‘eh’ go ahead and take off. I would rather have buyers on the line than just seeing 900 people on the line. If 100 of them are buyers I would rather see 100 people who are buyers.”
Rich: That’s why I said, if you are going to target, do you know who Andrea Fulton is?
Cindy: Yeah, yeah.
Rich: Andrea has a great list to buy from. Oh, plug plug, and I don’t even like her. Yeah I do.
Cindy: That’s mean.
Rich: Yeah, I know it is. I buy clicks from her. They are always good for me. If I sell 1 out of the 300 clicks, all right, I’ve spend $300 but I’m going to make… now that I think of it I only making $100, well you know what I mean. You’ve got to adjust for what it is going to be. If I’m making $100 I’ll spend $100. Like I said, if I get 100 people to show up and you can close 10%. Plus another thing, Cindy, that I suggest people to do is have a little pre-show. I like to have a little pre-show about 15 minutes where I get on and I chat with the folks. Turn on the webcam, show them my kitchen and my house. Here’s my house, that’s what my backyard looks like. That kind of stuff.
I get out of my kitchen, I have my desk in my kitchen that way it is shorter to the refrigerator. Which reminds me, I did my 10,000 steps today.
Cindy: Oh you did?
Rich: They were to my refrigeration and back. I got that workout. i woke up this morning feeling like exercise, so I went back to bed until that feeling passed. Cindy: You’re a dork.
Rich: Yeah I know. Vault111, I didn’t think you’d know that, I got that from my son.
Cindy: Oh dear.
Rich: Nobody else picked up on that.
Cindy: You’ve been selling it and pitching jokes and everything from stage. I think the first time that I saw you on stage you were up there with
somebody you were joking around.
Rich: Well, you know they tell me to get up on stage and and stall for time while they screw around. That is going to happen again this year, you know? Joel Comm is going to act all pretty and EBR is going to hide with his wife. They’re going, whose on stage next? There’s Rich. Yeah, all right. I can hear them from the background, “Lose some weight.” what sounds better? Exercise or a cupcake?”
Cindy: For the sake of people that are listening, if you’re not aware. Rich here runs the JVZoo events. It’s Marketing Mayhem that’s coming out very soon. I am headed over there as well. If you’re listening and you happen to be headed over to Orlando, make sure that you drop by because it is a really cool place to hang out and meet up with a whole bunch of marketers and connect with people. Actually my business really rook off as soon as I started attending events.
Rich: In all fairness Cindy, your products are good and everybody loves you.
Cindy: Thank you.
Rich: They wouldn’t buy your products if they were crap. I’m serious.
Cindy: Well, thanks.
Rich: You’re work stands for itself. That’s the reason that people buy. It is not just the pretty face on it, although I would buy that pretty face.
Cindy: Oh please. Okay. So we were talking about webinars.
Rich: All right all right.
Cindy: Do you have any final words of wisdom that you might like to share with our listeners. Do you have any bits that we might not have covered? Any tid bits about webinars and making sure they convert, maybe?
Rich: I do.
Cindy: You do?
Rich: I do. We didn’t talk about structuring your webinar and I believe… Cindy: We didn’t, yeah. Would you like to get into that?
Rich: Yeah, well we talked about structuring 60 minute worth of webinar but how you actually do it is this. Here is is the secret. If you look at an hour clock, and look at like a radio station clock on the wall. At 12 minutes they’d have a commercial then 3 minutes they would have a commercial, then they would get back into music and they would have that to 33 and then they would have weather and then they would have a public service announcement, then they would get to two songs, and then they’d have commercials for 4 minutes, and then they would get up to a quarter of the hour and they would play two records and then at 52 they would have two commercials and take it all the way to the quarter of the hour. That’s how you break down your webinar. You give the first two minutes, you tell about yourself, “Hi, I’m Rich I fly airplanes. I like fires and I have a good time eating at buffets.” Then show a couple of pictures because we all take pictures of our food. Show a couple of pictures and then go right into your webinar.
Structure your webinars from your product anywhere from 7-10 minutes and then when you’re done with those 10 minutes, ask questions. Ask those people to engage. Get yourself engaged get, 15, 30, 45. That gives you an example, just an example, you can create your webinar how you want to create your webinar. That’s how I would do it in order to shorten that webinar, get then to…
Rich: With you, interact with you by asking questions that everybody can answer. Did you like the product? Did you like the way it looked? Did you like the way it feels? Do you think it will be a benefit for you? Will it help you with your problems? Does it solve your problems? Is there anything else, or my favorite two words, and always remember that…. other than that, “Other than,” is that the only thing stopping you from taking advantage of this product today?
Well if they say “no, nothing else,” there is no reason for them to buy. Structure you’re webinar for 45 minutes start with your question and answer and through your question and answer intertwine your clothes end it at 60 minutes is the best advice that I can give you even if you have your own webinar, take advantage and shorten it right now. You know the stuff to cut up. Cindy, you know the stuff that you are going to have to edit in this interview.
Cindy: Yes. Do you have any advice on the percentage? You’re talking about different [inaudible 00:28:12] what about content versus pitch, I mean you had the word pitch? Content versus actually selling them. How much content do you deliver?
Rich: You break it down into 15 minute [inaudible 00:28:28]. If you’re going to do that it has to be 75% has to be pitched, it has to be content. Cindy: Yeah okay.
Rich: Okay. If your going to do 75% and it has to be solid content, the other 15 minutes is throw away. Basically you have 2 minutes to introduce yourself, you’ve got anywhere between 43 and 45 minutes to go ahead and present your product and you have to actually meet all of the criteria of your presentation which I go through like a meet and greet of presentation and investigation. A product presentation, a demonstration, a trial close, a close, overcoming objection, closing were talking follow-up the sales and asking for another sale. If you think that is a lot if you don’t do that with everybody, you’ll lose out on people. Now, if you do that with everybody you increase one or two sales per person. That’s how I talk like you can convert. Do the things they other people won’t do and you’ll be a successful as you can be. Don’t settle for mediocrity. Mediocrity is not a sin, but just remember, if you are mediocre you’re always at your best. Don’t always be your best.
Cindy: Oh well. Thank you so much for sharing these hints and tips.
Rich: You’re welcome.
Cindy: I really appreciate you being here Rich and I look forward to seeing you at the JVZoo event next month.
Rich: I look forward to it as well. You have a great day Cindy.
Cindy: Thanks you too.
Rich: Adios, all right mate, bye.