During this episode number 5, Sean is going to discuss product positioning,
how to market webinars outside of the regular make money online niche, how to use the strategy for bigger businesses, including how he has worked this into company makeover, taking them from 7 figures and now into 8 figures. Welcome Sean, it’s fantastic to have you here.
Cindy: In this episode, number 5, I interview Sean Donahoe. Founder of ADD Marketing group. He has had over 20 years of experience helping businesses and entrepreneurs with over 100,000 clients all over the world.
Sean: It’s good to see you Cindy. How are you doing my dear?
Cindy: I’m doing fabulous. Today we’re going to talk a lot about webinars and we know that webinars work in internet marketing. We’ve had a lot of people on the show talking about how to sell software and that kind of thing, but can you tell me how a non-internet marketing business can use webinars? What is different there?
Sean: Well, when you’ve got any sort of product that you can sell digitally, certainly it works better than physical products, but if you’ve got anything you want to sell it’s a great format for product positioning, for gathering an audience around you. The way I equate is kind of like putting people in a town square and standing up there and being able to just broadcast your message to everyone that you’ve gathered there that is interested in what you have to say.
Unlike a lot of other forms of marketing, which is what I call solo- marketing because someone sees an ad and they go to your sales page, you’re not doing it in a group environment and I’m big on crowd dynamics. When people feel that that they are a part of a bigger group or are all there, they’re all feeding off each others energy and everything else it’s a completely different kettle of fish than just talking to one person who just happens to be on your sales page or reading your brochure offline or what have you because that’s just one person with their intent and everything else, but when you’re in a group and everyone’s feeding off the same energy, they’ve got all the same questions, the same desires you kind of get that mob mentality, that crowd mentality.
With webinars it’s just absolutely fantastic because now you’ve got this one entity. It’s all of these people have come together and they’re like one person that you’re talking directly to in so many levels. You can control the message. You can read the room, so to speak, and everyone there. You can see where the sentiment of your message is either hitting the mark or missing the mark and you can modify on the floor. You don’t get a chance to do that because it’s just a sales page because it’s not dynamic. I love that dynamic interaction because it really gives you a pulse of what you’re saying and what you’re trying to communicate to help these people get to where they need to be.
Cindy: That’s great. I know that when you’re using a webinar software most people can’t see how many people are in the room. As the presenter you can see if there’s three people in the room or if you’ve packed it at a thousand. Do you have any tricks on letting people know that there’s other people in the room? How do you build up that kind of excitement.
Sean: That’s a great thing. What I always do at the beginning is I always do a role call. This lets everyone in the room know there’s lots of people in here. What I’ll do is I’ll say, “Hey, before we get started here we like to make these sessions interactive because you help shape the content.” The reason I do that is obviously to get people engaged. I’ll say, We’ll do a role call. Tell us your name, say “hi”, and where you’re from.” We’ll do that right at the beginning before anything else. As I’m reading the scroll I’ll call out individual names and places. If a I know a place or I’ve got some connection, say, “I’m from Texas, I’m just up the road, great.””From Vegas, yep there every month.” Something like that.
I’m bringing all these people together. First of all you connect them, the individuals you call out to the session. If you’ve got 100’s or 1000s of people, you’re going to say, “All this is going so fast I can only pick out a few because it’s going so fast because they’re so many people here tonight.” You always elude to that and then the coping is as you’re going through a webinar … I always like to call out a question that catches my eye.
I have multiple monitors. This is actually a 6 monitor rig. I can’t turn the camera around. If you’ve ever seen the movie “Small Fish” this is my small rig. My big rig is in my main office. This is my little [inaudible 00:04:41] studio. I have it upper multiple monitors. I can see what my staff are doing on one side and see the interactions there. I can also see the questions as I’m presenting. Obviously I don’t do a webcam while I’m doing a webinar. Sometimes I will.
Actually that’s something we might talk about later on. I can read off questions and I can call out what people say. When they see me do that or my team passes me a question there seeing that, “Oh there’s other people there asking the same kind of connective questions I would be as a customer.” It gives that kind of dynamism. Now there are pieces of software out there that will actually create … You can see the chat log. Webinar Gem which is one of the tools. Webinar Gem stadium. You can have a live chat. Everybody can see each other as they’re asking questions. Maybe not the full attendee count. There are other ones that are also fake which really not for.
They have the fake chat rooms and you can see that there’s all these virtual people in there. It’s all BS, I don’t like that. I don’t recommend that. That’s one thing with any webinar be-it in the IM space where a lot of people know me from the IM space. I actually do 90% of my business outside of IM. Be genuine. In IM absolutely. Outside of IM be genuine and everything will work out so much better for the long term. Product positioning successfully is nothing if you aren’t authentic in the delivery of it.
See so many people do scammy, scarcity tactics. Fake scarcity this and fake that. Be upfront with your customers.
Cindy: There’s no way to build an actual long term business is there? People respond to people. If you plan to be here 12 months from now still doing [inaudible 00:06:31]. You can’t actually get away with it anymore. It’s the Internet.
Sean: It’s not a way to business. I’ve built my business in all these different niches on them. I run many, many corporations in different interests. I’ve got my fingers in so many pies. I’ve built my name on integrity. If you don’t have integrity in this business you’re just shooting yourself in the foot. It’s going to come down. It doesn’t matter what kind of empire you create. If you don’t have the right solid foundation. It’s going to crumble.
Sean: Go with the right foot forward.
Cindy: Our listeners, if there’s people who are listening in and they have a digital product. It could just be in any niche, I guess. Maybe they’re not online but they’d like to do something online. Is there any kind of structure that you can recommend that they use when they’re actually building their pitch that would be different from how we doing things? Is it pretty much the same?
You have the introduction. You have the training. Some kind of expressing teaching kind of thing. Then you have demonstration of a software or the product it is that you’re trying to sell. That kind of flow. Do you do things a little bit differently?
Sean: That’s a great question. In IM specifically, a lot of people are trained to respond to webinars and so [inaudible 00:08:08]. Right now in IM webinars are a struggle for most people. All they do is pitch. It’s a pitch right from the start. They know they’re being pitched. People are coming on there, they’re already jaded. What we do is completely different.
We throw that model right out the window. It’s very simple model. We tell them what we’re going to teach them. We’re going to tell them when its going to happen. Why it’s important? Then we teach them one core strategy. That is piece of a much larger puzzle. For example, in the finance world, we deal with home net-worth individuals with one of the companies I consult with. This other one that’s in the real estate business. Again, high net worth individuals. Now when you’re dealing with … We’re talking about $5,000 dollar price points, okay?
We’re not dealing with small turkeys here. Now the thing here is that your customers have a reasonable expectation of why are they here right now? Now Conica Rose a very good copywriter friend of both of ours, he has four questions that I absolutely love. It’s “Why me?” “Why you?” “Why this?” “Why now?” You’ve got to answer his four questions. Why me? From the customers standpoint, “Why should care about what you have to say?” “How is it going to help me?”
We’re not altruistic creatures. We’re very self centered. We want to know why we’re investing our time which is the same as money to busy people. “Why am I investing my time with you right now?” “What is in it for me?” “Are you gonna solve my problem?” Now for example, with a finance side we’re talking with people in the stock market who have bank accounts and they’ve blown them up, you know 50,000, 100,000 dollar accounts.
That has evaporated because they traded that. What we’re trying to do is show them how to get from where they are and the problems they’re having right now all the way up to being successful trader. Now we can only take them so far in 19 minutes. My always position, what we’re training them is this is starting point. We can only go so far in this and at the end I’m going to tell you how we can continue this.
What we’re doing is we’re already seeding the fact that there’s going to be something at the end. We ask them permission. “Is it okay if we show you how to go beyond what we teach you here?” That already seeds everything that we’re going to talk about at the end. We say, “Hey, you know if we deliver amazing value and right now is it okay if we show you how we can continue this outside of this presentation?” Everyone’s going to say, “Yes.”
Now here’s the next thing. You’ve got to deliver on that expectation. If people are coming, it doesn’t matter what price point you want. Whether you’re $47 dollars, $497 dollars, $4,997 dollars. Whatever your spectrum is, you’ve got to set that expectation and over deliver. If you over deliver on value, what you connect it to, what your pictures going to be for whatever you’re doing, then you’re going to have a lot more engagement all the way through. You’re going to draw people all the way through to the very, very end. They’re going to stick to that transition between your content and when you start actually telling them about the product, solution, or service that you guys are offering.
We structure it as a brief introduction, no more than 5 minutes. We tell the what they’re going to learn, why it’s important, we tell them exactly when it’s going to happen, we peer into their immediate needs. You’ve got to understand your customer all the way down the line. We do about 75 – 80% content Only 15% is actually pitch. For example, if you imagine line between here and here. This is where they’re starting. This is where they want to be. We’re taking them on the first step which is the biggest hurdle for most people.
We take some really great content. We tell them how to do it. It’s a great leap forward to them. They’ve got to have an “Ah ha” moment. If you give them that, they really want to get all the rest that you have to show them. This is what makes transitioning and pitching your product so easy if you say,”Hey this is just small piece of a much bigger pie.” “We’ve only got so much time to show you here, this piece.” “This is already going to make you light years ahead of everyone else.” “We’ve got to much more we want to show you which is why I want to tell you about “X”.
It’s a great transition method because you’re giving them step one out of say five steps of your overall course. The biggest “ah ha”, the biggest eye opener. You’re also giving them a sneak peak at the value that you’re providing to them and what you will provide them if they come with you as part of this kind of now tribe that you’re creating to show them exactly what you do.
Cindy: Now that’s fantastic. You sell to them on the first webinar? Do you have a series of webinars? Do you just basically dive straight in?
Sean: We strike while the iron is hot. Because of this transitional method that we use from going from here to there, we know we want to keep them on that path so what we’ll do we’ll actually say, “You can jump right now.” Now by this time and I was explaining this in the mastermind recently which Cindy was at as well.
We were showing an 8 figure what we call a “Lead float”. Okay a Lead float is a way you take a lead through a series of events and you connect with them in a certain way and you drive them through to a desired course position and course of action. [inaudible 00:14:10] We have a phone number. In the replay, if they don’t buy on the webinar, we’ll actually call them up and make sure everything was cool. The got to see the replay. We’ll follow up with them in a different ways and connect personally with the user.
Again, we’re dealing with high net-worth clients. That personal connection is great because you want to make sure that they’re being treated with first class service. That’s what we want to offer to our clients. The company’s that I consult with want to offer to their clients. This is first class hand holding service. Red carpet treatment all the way down the line. If they have any questions, any problems, anything they said, “You know I was okay with that but I wasn’t sure about this one part.” That’s the part that maybe we follow up with questions and that’s great. We do is actually do as many sales in that process as we do live on the session.
What else? We’ve got replays and everything else so that really does help. We actually do make the pitch right on that webinar. We also do that follow up and the postal follow up to engage any customers that have any questions. We’re always going to have a certain amount of first responders so to speak that jump right in.
You’re going to have those that kind of sitting on the fence that might not commit right then but might afterwards and keep on thinking.
Or those that, “Kind of, I get it, I’m just not quite there.” Again, the vast majority of those people are going to be that latter group. You want to follow up with them as much as possible and say, “Hey, did you have any questions?” “Was it cool?” “Was there a part that you didn’t get?” “Was there anything that was stopping you moving forward?” You know, because obviously they come to your webinar or training because they’ve got a problem and you’ve tried to provide a solution to that big problem. That’s what’s attracted them there in the first place. What’s the stumbling block for them? “How can we help you passed it to movie forward to solve your problem?
To me that’s good customer service. You’re doing your customer’s a disservice if you are not following up with them in a personal way to help them solve what they’ve got in their lives.
Cindy: Right, how do you get registrations in the first place? Is this old friend, client associated with the business already and just trying to take them to the next level? Are you doing outside advertising to get leads? How are you getting people? How are you filling your webinars?
Sean: Well, we already have internal lists in a lot of the companies that I consult with. With us, with what we do we have internal lists already but yes media buys, social media, pay per click advertising, video ads. Basically we always want or looking to expand our reach because it’s so many people.
A lot of people talk about saturation. “Oh this market’s over saturated.” “Oh, this market’s over saturated.” “Oh you can’t get in the dating niche or the health niche because it’s over saturated.” BS. Let’s put it politically correct in the sense [inaudible 00:17:16] so there’s no more BS. It’s absolute BS because here’s the thing, if you think about this guys, Facebook. If you just drove traffic to your offers with Facebook. That’s 1.5 billion active users on Facebook.
There’s more on different platforms, Twitter, LinkedIn. If you go on business to business. LinkedIn is the one to work with. You’ve got Snap Chat, Instagram, obviously it depends on your market. Me primarily Facebook is it. We also do video ads. We also do Google AdWords and stuff like that. Facebook is our primary source of traffic. 1.5 billion okay guys. You are able to get a decent slice of that with your ad budget. There’s no such thing as a traffic problem.
We lead people into either a case study or a free download or direct registration to a webinar where we’re going to teach them X. One of the really cool things hat we do with webinar registration is we do a video ad. We tell them, “Hey, this is what we’ve got something very cool we wanted to show them.” “It’s going to give this, this.” You don’t resell the content. You pre sell the click. You want to tell them exactly what they’re going to get, how they’re going to get it and why they should click to go to your sign up page.
Product positioning is making sure that you aren’t only focused on selling the content. Sell the click. If you do that in the video ads to get direct registrations. What you’re doing is … I would do something like this. “Right now I’ll tell you exactly what you’re going to get, why I want to show you it, why it’s so important and why it’s different from everyone else.” Always want to differentiate yourself from the rest of the herd. We’re actually writing a book right now called “Rebel Trader” and we’re positioning ourselves for one of our corporations that we’re starting up right now as Khachaturian, in other words completely anti-establishment of the way everyone else does it.
Everyone else sucks. Okay, we actually really present ourselves and position ourselves as the Khachaturian rebels. Ignore everyone else. This is what you need to know. This is why everyone else is failing and you don’t have to. We’ll engage like this now again, when you’re dealing with social media wise you can see my face. You can see my eyes. You can see the passion I’m talking about whatever I’m talking about. Which is really great for engagement. People react to faces. We’re psychological programmed to … If you go over a page in social media, test yourself and see how many faces with the eyes facing straight forward that you’re engaged with.
That’s what people connect with. That’s what’s going to get your eye balls on your ads. When you’re doing a video ad and everything else. You’re telling people, “Hey turn up your speakers and everything else important.” You’re getting many people to click. That is fantastic engagement. You’re already training them to engage with you personally as a personality as well as the message you’re trying to put across. That really, really helps with engagement for your then sign up page and then you can get your people in.
A giveaway, case study like I said or anything else that’s going to also start the process. The essention process from 0 to where they want to be. Maybe the first little step is the cheat sheet or a list or a short cut or something like that. You give them that when they sign up for the webinar. Say, “Hey this is how you download.” “We’re actually doing this training, sign up now, we’ll give you this case study right now.” “Then you can join us live as we go through this case study and show you how we did it step by step.”
Again, you’re taking them on that accentuation path where they want to be by giving them those first bread crumbs of saying, “Ah, cool, hey, this is what I needed.” “Perfect.”
Cindy: Right, yeah and then you have just sequences afterwards. You’re mentioning that you do follow ups. How many times do you follow up with them after you do a webinar?
Sean: Good question. 7 days. We have retargeting campaigns for those that attended or those that registered. Those that attended. Those that signed up. We have an onboarding process for those that signed up. We have onboarding process and follow up for those that registered but didn’t attend. We give them multiple opportunities to see a replay. Those that signed up and didn’t attend, we give them a slightly different twist. We might have a second chance live.
What we do is we deal a lot with altered webinars as well. We prefer live but obviously we automate like crazy. We have altered webinars that start every half hour or stuff like that. Obviously they’re not live. My company’s can’t be in 15 places at one. We don’t have Delorians and travel at 88 back to the future style. We use a lot of automation and the cool thing that, “Hey if you miss this one, there’s another one in X number of hours.” “Is that going to be more convenient? We’ll ask them, “Yes, no.” Micro-commitment questions or we’ll just say, “Hey, here’s the replay, you miss it, you missed a live one, but don’t miss this, it’s going to be essential when you see it.”
Again, we do those follow up thing with a phone call. Our priority list is those that attended but didn’t buy. We also run through that. We’ll go those who registered but didn’t attend. We might also follow up with them on the phone if we have the capacity to do that. Yeah, between me targeting, mail campaigns and everything else we might even have video ads as well but going for those that registered but didn’t attend or anything else and say, “Hey, you know wanted to make sure everything was cool.” “Saw that you missed the live video.” “Click on the link below, you can actually watch a live replay.”
“Right now we want to make sure that you have a chance to see it.” Engage with that. Especially with video stuff. They’re like, “How did he know?” Beauty of doing Internet targeting. Again, it feels like a personal message. If I said to you, “Hey, … I won’t insert your name here but you know so … “Hey glad I caught you.” “I noticed that you didn’t attend our webinar.” “Wanted to make sure everything was cool.” “Life happens.” “No problem.” “What we’ve done is we put a little link down here below.” “You can watch a live replay.” “We want to make sure you had a chance to catch what this awesome training.” “Click on that link right now and I’ll see you in the webinar.”
Simple as it gets. That one thing is 20 seconds, if that. Gives them enough “Hey, click that link.” “Join us on the webinar.” “You can watch a replay at your leisure.” “Hey, you know that’s cool.” People are very much engaged with that. You can see an amazing pick up in first of all attendees and obviously sales a long run. You’re bringing all those people back. You’re lubing back.
In webinars its usually a good conversion is 10% percent which means 90% percent of the people who registered didn’t say, “Yes.” They said, “No or not right now.” I wanted the people who say, “Not right now” because they didn’t have a chance. Life happens and everything else. We try and bring them back in so they have a second chance or a third chance or however long. For 7 days we will be following up and striking while the iron’s hot.
We found that after 7 days, that’s pretty much it. They’re not there. Hey, that doesn’t matter because we’ll do another webinar with a slightly different focus and we’ll introduce that after 7 days. One of the things that people do … and I’m going just keep on talking because ideas and stuff comes to me.
Cindy: That’s great.
Sean: This is where the button turns on. The hamsters start churning and all the [inaudible 00:25:36] comes out.
Cindy: Well you’ve got some good stuff. I’m sure I’ll listen with a bright mind if you keep bring it.
Sean: Think about the fitness niche. You’ve got people who are like middle aged men, young men, middle aged women, very young women who want to be fit. They all have different focuses, different needs. When you can target different messages to different demographics, as the same with the problems. Are you eating to be healthy? You eating to lose weight? Are you eating because you want to be a marathon runner? There’s different kinds of driving emotions in all of that.
You can target different things to different people’s needs. In the finance space, maybe people coming from the Forex industry or the Binary option and they want to learn how to really trade US equities markets. People who are looking say in the real estate industry looking to flipping houses or tax liens. They want to kind of learn how to get into real estate development. You’ve got different focuses. You can create different ways in to that central message. So that if hey, If that one didn’t connect with them, maybe this one will
This is one now connects better with them. Drawing them to the same process. Now you’re connecting more with their primary driver. That works very well as well. There’s many, many, many different angles to bring all the people down into this.
Yeah, a follow up is essential. You’ve got to follow up. You’ve got to lead them in. You’ve got to connect from here to here. You want them in the middle. That’s perfect and then they can be on that accentuation part as I mentioned.
Cindy: You mentioned briefly about Evergreen and prerecorded webinars. What if we go back to that just really quickly. We’re going to have to wrap this up pretty soon. If you’re doing webinars and their automated every half an hour do people assume that it’s going to be automated? They must know. How do get around making it still be personable without it looking artificial? How do you make an automated webinar actually still do the benefit of connecting with them as much as possible or not actually?
Sean: Well, there’s a couple of cool ways you can do this. Now I mentioned in the beginning about being genuine all the way through. We tell them that this is prerecorded training, we’re right up front. “This is a prerecorded training, you have an opportunity to be here and we actually have coaches and people here that can answer any questions you have as we go through this.” Which we do.
Now the cool thing here is if anyone test that and they get an instant reply back from someone who’s on the call, great. Or you just don’t disclose it at all and let people make assumptions. That’s a grey area. I’m not really keen on that. If you don’t disclose that it’s live and you don’t disclose that it’s not live but you say,”Hey our people are standing by here if you’ve got any questions at all, you’ve got a live coach right now. You can ask any questions. Working in the background here. You can do it that way if you want to.
I prefer to say, “Hey we got some great training here.” Just go right through and say, “You know this is a training we do all the time.” Which is another kind of angle you could say that. Say, “Hey this is a training we do all the time.” “We’d love you to be on this.” ‘”This is what you’re going to get out of it.” “We’ve got people standing by if you’ve got any questions.” “You’ll see the chat box below.”I got lots and lots of people here so we got lots to get through, so let’s get started.”
You’re eluding to the fact or what have you. You can just come out and say, “That this is a training we do all the time.” In the IM world, again people are very wise to automated webinars and everything else. Outside of IM world, not so much.
Sean: If you don’t want to do that per say, and go that route, you could do a training once or twice a week. You’ll end up sounded stale. I’ve got a lot of people who do the same training and they do it live like twice a week. They start getting like this.
Cindy: It would be exhausting. Yes. It’s like when you go to Universal Studio’s and it’s that guy who’s like taking …
Sean: Oh my God, yes!
Cindy: You know he’s going to do this every half an hour [inaudible 00:30:01]
Sean: This is the guy in Universal Studio’s going on those trolleys, he want to jump into the Jaws. “Eat me now!” “Eat me.”
Sean: I feel bad for those guys.
Cindy: Do you have any last minute advice for our [inaudible 00:30:18] listeners?
Sean: Yeah don’t be afraid to do webinars. Even if you suck at it at first, which I did, do it. The more you practice, the better you get.
Webinars are one of the greatest ways to position your business, to give you authority, to put you way ahead of everyone else, especially outside of IM. Don’t be afraid to do it. Don’t be afraid of screwing it up. Just do it. You’ll get better and better with practice. You’ll figure out how to do things. How not to do things. Just like I did. My first webinar, I didn’t sell a dime.
Unfortunately most people in the IM world and non IM world would give up right there. Not me. Not smart people. Not you. Go for it. Practice. Get better. Develop those webinar skills and you will unleash an amazing profit stream for any business you’re in.
Cindy: That is awesome, thank you so much for those awesome tips and hints and everything that you’ve shared today Sean. Thanks for joining us here today.
Sean: My absolute pleasure. Have a good day.
Cindy: Take care man. Bye.